Red Mosquito

Strat wrote:Ed just tries too hard to write catchy choruses. Choruses that are supposed to rile up an entire stadium. It just comes across as lame. Feels as though everything outside of the chorus is quickly glanced over so he can hurry up to a lame cheesy chorus phrase. PJ's best songs and most interesting periods are nothing like this.

Exactly. The long-term fans want something unique and different and challenging. The jock-rock "Ten is their only good album" fans want the band to write riff heavy arena rock. This mid-tempo poppy stuff isn't making anyone happy except maybe the band and if that's the case that's really sad.

BurtReynolds wrote:

harmless wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Pearl Jam are on the verge of self parody at this point.

I thought Pearl Jam were on the verge of self parody on my first listens to Yield and Binaural. I'm quite used to feeling that way.

I think Ed is writing music solely for his wife and kids at this point. They have no editors after they got off of Epic. They are surrounded by yes men and it shows.

This shows zero knowledge of their time with Epic.

Strat wrote:Its not so much production, its having a recorded version to hear what is actually going on in the song.

Big Wave (sorry, i love it) - If I heard a shitty audience bootleg version of it id chalk it off as a throw away punk song. But with a studio version I can hear the impressive guitar interchange between mike and stone, the bass lines, the quick time changes etc.. These all make the song what it is and what i find enjoyable and I may not have been able to hear those intricacies by a shitty camera recording.

Thats not production, thats just being able to really hear the song.

Great points. The other thing to keep in mind is that you have the studio version of a song in your head when you listen to it live. In this sense your ear "fills in the gaps" so while they may not be playing all the same parts on stage you are hearing them in your head. If you hear a song for the first time live then you are obviously missing out on that phenomenon. On a simple song like FD I don't think that matters as much. It's just boring. But "Lightning Bolt" horrible title and weak chorus aside has potential to have at the very least some nice guitar interplay.

darthvedder81 wrote:

Strat wrote:Its not so much production, its having a recorded version to hear what is actually going on in the song.

Big Wave (sorry, i love it) - If I heard a shitty audience bootleg version of it id chalk it off as a throw away punk song. But with a studio version I can hear the impressive guitar interchange between mike and stone, the bass lines, the quick time changes etc.. These all make the song what it is and what i find enjoyable and I may not have been able to hear those intricacies by a shitty camera recording.

Thats not production, thats just being able to really hear the song.

Great points. The other thing to keep in mind is that you have the studio version of a song in your head when you listen to it live. In this sense your ear "fills in the gaps" so while they may not be playing all the same parts on stage you are hearing them in your head. If you hear a song for the first time live then you are obviously missing out on that phenomenon. On a simple song like FD I don't think that matters as much. It's just boring. But "Lightning Bolt" horrible title and weak chorus aside has potential to have at the very least some nice guitar interplay.

The chords, structure and arrangement of Lightning Bolt is far more interesting than Backspacer stuff. And the melody on top is nice. The chorus is meh, but I think it has precedents in the catalogue that I also didn't / don't think much of.

harmless wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:Guys, production isn't going to save this stuff. If a song is any good it will come off live, these two didn't. They were just......there.

I sort of agree with this and I sort of don't.

Production won't save "Future Days". It's a simple song. A simple but extremely dull song with too much piano.

"Lightning Bolt" is a horrible song/album title and won't be a great song but depending on how the guitars are layered on the studio cut (especially in the interlude between verse/chorus) I might enjoy it.

Nothing I've heard from this album so far has any potential for being great and that's a first for me.

What was 'great' off of Backspacer?

Amongst the Waves is classic PJ and I thought an important track if only because it's a classic Gossard riff ballad the likes of which haven't been heard since Dissident.
I like GTSMF, Got Some and Johnny Guitar a lot. Johnny Guitar and also Supersonic have a kind of bounce and groove to them at times that remind me of DTE or Satan's Bed.

I like a lot off of Backspacer. You obviously don't. That's OK. Just giving you my assessment. It's a first for me to not like anything I've heard early from a PJ album. That was my larger point.

darthvedder81 wrote:

harmless wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:Guys, production isn't going to save this stuff. If a song is any good it will come off live, these two didn't. They were just......there.

I sort of agree with this and I sort of don't.

Production won't save "Future Days". It's a simple song. A simple but extremely dull song with too much piano.

"Lightning Bolt" is a horrible song/album title and won't be a great song but depending on how the guitars are layered on the studio cut (especially in the interlude between verse/chorus) I might enjoy it.

Nothing I've heard from this album so far has any potential for being great and that's a first for me.

What was 'great' off of Backspacer?

Amongst the Waves is classic PJ and I thought an important track if only because it's a classic Gossard riff ballad the likes of which haven't been heard since Dissident.
I like GTSMF, Got Some and Johnny Guitar a lot. Johnny Guitar and also Supersonic have a kind of bounce and groove to them at times that remind me of DTE or Satan's Bed.

I like a lot off of Backspacer. You obviously don't. That's OK. Just giving you my assessment. It's a first for me to not like anything I've heard early from a PJ album. That was my larger point.

No, I mean I do like all those songs you list (except for Supersonic). But I don't consider them great, just good; same reaction as these ones.

EJ wrote:That review didn't seem negative at all.

That being said, I haven't heard either of the new songs and will wait. But, based on most of the comments, my expectations for the album have now receded again. Some of the comments are really funny, by the way.

Here's the part of the review I thought was negative:

A few quibbles and observations about this one: A McCready solo is the band’s fallback position during its weaker moments. Whenever a song falters or doesn’t quite have enough juice to reach the finish line, the ball gets tossed to the wiry, mohawked guitarist – as during the title track from “Lightning Bolt” and the pedestrian “Even Flow.” Vedder also tested his fans’ goodwill by pulling out an accordion for the perverse “Bugs.” At least he left the ukuleles back stage.

I don't agree with him on Bugs or Even Flow, which is a great, great Pearl Jam song.

But it does seem that LB doesn't have enough juice to finish....

So far everything I've heard:

MYM: 3/5
LB: 3/5
FD: Can't judge

Coach wrote:

EJ wrote:That review didn't seem negative at all.

That being said, I haven't heard either of the new songs and will wait. But, based on most of the comments, my expectations for the album have now receded again. Some of the comments are really funny, by the way.

Here's the part of the review I thought was negative:

A few quibbles and observations about this one: A McCready solo is the band’s fallback position during its weaker moments. Whenever a song falters or doesn’t quite have enough juice to reach the finish line, the ball gets tossed to the wiry, mohawked guitarist – as during the title track from “Lightning Bolt” and the pedestrian “Even Flow.” Vedder also tested his fans’ goodwill by pulling out an accordion for the perverse “Bugs.” At least he left the ukuleles back stage.

I don't agree with him on Bugs or Even Flow, which is a great, great Pearl Jam song.

But it does seem that LB doesn't have enough juice to finish....

So far everything I've heard:

MYM: 3/5
LB: 3/5
FD: Can't judge

The fact that the outro to LB is so long, and that Matt ends the song with a very generic 'live' fill + KABLAAAM leads me to believe that the song doesn't really have as much noodling in the outro and will be cut short in the studio.

My larger point is that my expectations for this album have dropped.

darthvedder81 wrote:
Amongst the Waves is classic PJ and I thought an important track if only because it's a classic Gossard riff ballad the likes of which haven't been heard since Dissident.

The main problem with ATW has always been that it lacks any memorable riff whatsoever. A memorable riff would have taken it to beyond the meh level. Instead, it plods, rises and plods some more. Dissident has that giant, clear as a bell riff that makes the song soar.

evenslow wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:
Amongst the Waves is classic PJ and I thought an important track if only because it's a classic Gossard riff ballad the likes of which haven't been heard since Dissident.

The main problem with ATW has always been that it lacks any memorable riff whatsoever. A memorable riff would have taken it to beyond the meh level. Instead, it plods, rises and plods some more. Dissident has that giant, clear as a bell riff that makes the song soar.

The riff in Dissident is gorgeous.

Coach wrote:My larger point is that my expectations for this album have dropped.

Certainly not making any definitive value judgments at this point, but in a very general sense, I'd be lying if I said my expectations haven't dropped after the two new songs came into play last night.

evenslow wrote:

Coach wrote:My larger point is that my expectations for this album have dropped.

Certainly not making any definitive value judgments at this point, but in a very general sense, I'd be lying if I said my expectations haven't dropped after the two new songs came into play last night.

Yeah. I'm already making excuses for these songs in my mind, and I wasn't doing that for MYM.

harmless wrote:

evenslow wrote:

Coach wrote:My larger point is that my expectations for this album have dropped.

Certainly not making any definitive value judgments at this point, but in a very general sense, I'd be lying if I said my expectations haven't dropped after the two new songs came into play last night.

Yeah. I'm already making excuses for these songs in my mind, and I wasn't doing that for MYM.

They played these new songs not so long after I was drunkenly rambling to a buddy about how I think this next album is going to be something memorable and legit.

:\

Strat wrote:

harmless wrote:

evenslow wrote:

Coach wrote:My larger point is that my expectations for this album have dropped.

Certainly not making any definitive value judgments at this point, but in a very general sense, I'd be lying if I said my expectations haven't dropped after the two new songs came into play last night.

Yeah. I'm already making excuses for these songs in my mind, and I wasn't doing that for MYM.

They played these new songs not so long after I was drunkenly rambling to a buddy about how I think this next album is going to be something memorable and legit.

:\

You were drunk. So there's that.

Strat wrote:

harmless wrote:

evenslow wrote:

Coach wrote:My larger point is that my expectations for this album have dropped.

Certainly not making any definitive value judgments at this point, but in a very general sense, I'd be lying if I said my expectations haven't dropped after the two new songs came into play last night.

Yeah. I'm already making excuses for these songs in my mind, and I wasn't doing that for MYM.

They played these new songs not so long after I was drunkenly rambling to a buddy about how I think this next album is going to be something memorable and legit.

:\

I hear ya man. It's a little disappointing but I have no doubt there will be some redeeming stuff on this record - and the studio versions may still surprise.

Honestly the only thing holding me back from getting on the "Lightning Bolt" train is that chorus. It reminds me of something recent-vintage Bono thinks would change the world when in fact it's somewhat pedestrian.

Every time I hear something new, I think to myself 'Please let it be better than Supersonic'. Everything has passed that test so far.

harmless wrote:Every time I hear something new, I think to myself 'Please let it be better than Supersonic'. Everything has passed that test so far.

Well there ya go. Glass remains half full.

harmless wrote:Every time I hear something new, I think to myself 'Please let it be better than Supersonic'. Everything has passed that test so far.

Shooting for the moon, eh? That's a high bar.

evenslow wrote:

harmless wrote:Every time I hear something new, I think to myself 'Please let it be better than Supersonic'. Everything has passed that test so far.

Well there ya go. Glass remains half full.

Yup. Not unhappy with Lightning Bolt. I'm worried about the Brendan O'Brien presence on Better Days but otherwise it's a pretty song.