Red Mosquito

EJ wrote:

harmless wrote:Every time I hear something new, I think to myself 'Please let it be better than Supersonic'. Everything has passed that test so far.

Shooting for the moon, eh? That's a high bar.

I think it's disingenuous to have a high bar at this point. As long as this band remains mildly enjoyable I'll like 'em and want to listen to their new songs.

Hello guys, long time lurker and first time poster here.

A bit surprised at all the negativity towards the new songs but to each their own. Personally, I really like MYM and LB and think FD is pretty good for what it is too (I see it as something similar to Around The Bend on No Code). Then again, I never understood why No Code and Yield are almost universally worshipped here when those two albums (alongwith Binaural and Riot Act) represent the band's weakest output to me. I love the first three albums and really like S/T and Backspacer. I think there are a couple of great songs on each of the albums from No Code through Riot Act, but overall, they don't do much for me.

MYM has been pretty well received here as I see it. LB has received a lot of negativity for it's title and chorus and supposed lack of depth. I don't understand how darkness is somehow associated with depth and how 'lightning bolt' as a chorus sucks when PJ have had choruses like 'why go home', 'evacuation', 'even flow', 'can't touch the bottom, in too deep' etc. Some of the lyrics in these classics are nothing extraordinary either but we've come to appreciate them so I don't see why LB can't be the same. It has a lot going for it.

I think FD is pretty effective as a personal song much like Around The Bend was on No Code. It seems most here do not appreciate that the band is in a happier place personally and their output reflects that. I personally think Vitalogy is their best work so I too loved them back in the angsty days. It seems many here are still stuck in that era and want a repeat of something along those lines. Judging by the band's recent output, I don't think we'll be getting that and I don't think they should force it. They've spent over a decade making fairly inaccessible, 'difficult' music with a real lack of hooks. If they've decided to finally write 'poppier' songs, I'll take it happily.

This is pretty long for a first post but I am quite excited for the new album. I live in a part of the world where the band will never tour so albums are all I have. It's been a long wait since Backspacer and I hope it's worth it for me at least!

Peace.

All that means is that I like PJ as much as I liked other bands in the 90s.

Release_Me wrote:I don't understand how darkness is somehow associated with depth and how 'lightning bolt' as a chorus sucks when PJ have had choruses like 'why go home', 'evacuation', 'even flow', 'can't touch the bottom, in too deep' etc. Some of the lyrics in these classics are nothing extraordinary either but we've come to appreciate them so I don't see why LB can't be the same.

"Lightning bolt!" as a chorus sucks because there's virtually no melody to it. Even Flow and Deep have lengthy, instantly memorable melodies in the choruses. Why Go and Evacuation are phrases/words put forth in an recognizably melodic manner. You could hum them back to someone. If you asked me two minutes after they played Lightning Bolt last night to hum the chorus back, I couldn't because if there IS a melody there, it certainly wasn't present last night. You can't just shout a phrase and hope it turns into a melody.

Release_Me wrote:Hello guys, long time lurker and first time poster here.

Then again, I never understood why No Code and Yield are almost universally worshipped here when those two albums (alongwith Binaural and Riot Act) represent the band's weakest output to me. I love the first three albums and really like S/T and Backspacer

Nah you got it backwards. They were artists from 94-2003.




Welcome to the board

Lament wrote:

Release_Me wrote:I don't understand how darkness is somehow associated with depth and how 'lightning bolt' as a chorus sucks when PJ have had choruses like 'why go home', 'evacuation', 'even flow', 'can't touch the bottom, in too deep' etc. Some of the lyrics in these classics are nothing extraordinary either but we've come to appreciate them so I don't see why LB can't be the same.

"Lightning bolt!" as a chorus sucks because there's virtually no melody to it. Even Flow and Deep have lengthy, instantly memorable melodies in the choruses. Why Go and Evacuation are phrases/words put forth in an recognizably melodic manner. You could hum them back to someone. If you asked me two minutes after they played Lightning Bolt last night to hum the chorus back, I couldn't because if there IS a melody there, it certainly wasn't present last night. You can't just shout a phrase and hope it turns into a melody.

I kind of include the lines just before lighting bolt as part of the chorus.

Lament wrote:

Release_Me wrote:I don't understand how darkness is somehow associated with depth and how 'lightning bolt' as a chorus sucks when PJ have had choruses like 'why go home', 'evacuation', 'even flow', 'can't touch the bottom, in too deep' etc. Some of the lyrics in these classics are nothing extraordinary either but we've come to appreciate them so I don't see why LB can't be the same.

"Lightning bolt!" as a chorus sucks because there's virtually no melody to it.

OK, but do you also think the GTF chorus sucks? Because if not, there's got to be another reason you don't like this one.

Thejambi wrote:I kind of include the lines just before lighting bolt as part of the chorus.

I think I said this in another thread (or earlier in this one), but this reminds me of Worldwide Suicide in that the pre-chorus for both songs are strong enough to not need to be followed with the "LOOK THIS IS DEFINITELY THE CHORUS" moments of Ed shouting the songs titles over riffs that would probably be better augmented with guitar fills or bass runs that would then lead back to the next verse.

Coach wrote:

EJ wrote:That review didn't seem negative at all.

That being said, I haven't heard either of the new songs and will wait. But, based on most of the comments, my expectations for the album have now receded again. Some of the comments are really funny, by the way.

Here's the part of the review I thought was negative:

A few quibbles and observations about this one: A McCready solo is the band’s fallback position during its weaker moments. Whenever a song falters or doesn’t quite have enough juice to reach the finish line, the ball gets tossed to the wiry, mohawked guitarist – as during the title track from “Lightning Bolt” and the pedestrian “Even Flow.” Vedder also tested his fans’ goodwill by pulling out an accordion for the perverse “Bugs.” At least he left the ukuleles back stage.

I don't agree with him on Bugs or Even Flow, which is a great, great Pearl Jam song.

But it does seem that LB doesn't have enough juice to finish....

So far everything I've heard:

MYM: 3/5
LB: 3/5
FD: Can't judge

Evenflow only sucks because they play it too fast/Matt

harmless wrote:

Lament wrote:

Release_Me wrote:I don't understand how darkness is somehow associated with depth and how 'lightning bolt' as a chorus sucks when PJ have had choruses like 'why go home', 'evacuation', 'even flow', 'can't touch the bottom, in too deep' etc. Some of the lyrics in these classics are nothing extraordinary either but we've come to appreciate them so I don't see why LB can't be the same.

"Lightning bolt!" as a chorus sucks because there's virtually no melody to it.

OK, but do you also think the GTF chorus sucks? Because if not, there's got to be another reason you don't like this one.

LIGHTNING BOLT!!!............LIENIG BOWTL!!!!!................LIGHTNIIIIIINNNNNG BOOOWWWLLLLLLTTTT!

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

Lament wrote:

Release_Me wrote:I don't understand how darkness is somehow associated with depth and how 'lightning bolt' as a chorus sucks when PJ have had choruses like 'why go home', 'evacuation', 'even flow', 'can't touch the bottom, in too deep' etc. Some of the lyrics in these classics are nothing extraordinary either but we've come to appreciate them so I don't see why LB can't be the same.

"Lightning bolt!" as a chorus sucks because there's virtually no melody to it.

OK, but do you also think the GTF chorus sucks? Because if not, there's got to be another reason you don't like this one.

LIGHTNING BOLT!!!............LIENIG BOWTL!!!!!................LIGHTNIIIIIINNNNNG BOOOWWWLLLLLLTTTT!

OK, but that has nothing to do with melody.

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

Lament wrote:

Release_Me wrote:I don't understand how darkness is somehow associated with depth and how 'lightning bolt' as a chorus sucks when PJ have had choruses like 'why go home', 'evacuation', 'even flow', 'can't touch the bottom, in too deep' etc. Some of the lyrics in these classics are nothing extraordinary either but we've come to appreciate them so I don't see why LB can't be the same.

"Lightning bolt!" as a chorus sucks because there's virtually no melody to it.

OK, but do you also think the GTF chorus sucks? Because if not, there's got to be another reason you don't like this one.

LIGHTNING BOLT!!!............LIENIG BOWTL!!!!!................LIGHTNIIIIIINNNNNG BOOOWWWLLLLLLTTTT!

OK, but that has nothing to do with melody.

Exactly

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

Lament wrote:

Release_Me wrote:I don't understand how darkness is somehow associated with depth and how 'lightning bolt' as a chorus sucks when PJ have had choruses like 'why go home', 'evacuation', 'even flow', 'can't touch the bottom, in too deep' etc. Some of the lyrics in these classics are nothing extraordinary either but we've come to appreciate them so I don't see why LB can't be the same.

"Lightning bolt!" as a chorus sucks because there's virtually no melody to it.

OK, but do you also think the GTF chorus sucks? Because if not, there's got to be another reason you don't like this one.

LIGHTNING BOLT!!!............LIENIG BOWTL!!!!!................LIGHTNIIIIIINNNNNG BOOOWWWLLLLLLTTTT!

new sig?

Its not a melody but I quite like the vocal lift or slide up or whatever it is, like in all night.

harmless wrote:OK, but that has nothing to do with melody.

I don't think the GTF chorus is a great chorus. It works well enough in the context of the song, but I think yelling "Fly!" or "High!" is pretty lame. What the rest of the band is doing more than makes up for it, and the non-word moaning Ed does is absolutely melodic. I'd rather Ed filled the Lightning Bolt chorus with melodic "whoa"s than non-melodic (even non-percussive) repetitions of the title.

Lament wrote:

Release_Me wrote:I don't understand how darkness is somehow associated with depth and how 'lightning bolt' as a chorus sucks when PJ have had choruses like 'why go home', 'evacuation', 'even flow', 'can't touch the bottom, in too deep' etc. Some of the lyrics in these classics are nothing extraordinary either but we've come to appreciate them so I don't see why LB can't be the same.

"Lightning bolt!" as a chorus sucks because there's virtually no melody to it. Even Flow and Deep have lengthy, instantly memorable melodies in the choruses. Why Go and Evacuation are phrases/words put forth in an recognizably melodic manner. You could hum them back to someone. If you asked me two minutes after they played Lightning Bolt last night to hum the chorus back, I couldn't because if there IS a melody there, it certainly wasn't present last night. You can't just shout a phrase and hope it turns into a melody.

I do hear a melody and I find it hummable. It is simple and just two words but I like the way he phrases it. There's certainly more subtlety to it than Ed just shouting it. I certainly don't hear anything in 'why go home' which makes it any more melodic. Evacuation's chorus is jarring to my ears. Even Flow I agree is very melodic but my point was more the lyrics for that one. They're actually something only Ed could pull off with a straight face! Deep again I feel is a good song but with a weak chorus, both melodically and lyrically. I much prefer the verses there.

Talking about Ed shouting, I also don't get the hate for his vocals these days. Yes, his vocal instrument (i.e. his voice) is worn down by touring, smoking, drinking & age but he's technically a better singer now than he used to be. The baritone isn't as pristine sounding or smooth for sure, but he sings consistently higher (and lower) these days than he did in the early days and has more control. It takes a lot of skill to be able to sing the chorus to LROM. For the more technically inclined, those are solid D5s when he screams "Loove". His voice does break when singing high occasionally which is probably down to the aforementioned factors. He was never pushing his voice this much in the first three albums though. And by pushing, I don't mean just shouting/screaming because there was plenty of that. The highest he's ever gone is E5s in the early Beatles cover "I've Got A Feeling". He sounded quite shouty there because his technique wasn't as developed. Comparing those screams to LROM, he sounds much better now. If anything, his voice has lowered over the years and that "Dream a Little Dream" cover has him singing as low as A1. The lowest he got in the early years was D2 in Dead Man Walking.

TLDR; early Eddie 'sounds' better but present day Eddie does much more with his voice. One of the reasons I'm liking the new songs is that Eddie sounds particularly good, though none of these is as technically demanding as something like LROM. His voice really soars in LB and gives the song a GTF sort of feel. That's one song from Yield which I love

Lament wrote:

harmless wrote:OK, but that has nothing to do with melody.

I don't think the GTF chorus is a great chorus. It works well enough in the context of the song, but I think yelling "Fly!" or "High!" is pretty lame. What the rest of the band is doing more than makes up for it, and the non-word moaning Ed does is absolutely melodic. I'd rather Ed filled the Lightning Bolt chorus with melodic "whoa"s than non-melodic (even non-percussive) repetitions of the title.

That's fair enough and I agree. I'm hoping the music behind this chorus lifts it slightly.

Thejambi wrote:

Release_Me wrote:Hello guys, long time lurker and first time poster here.

Then again, I never understood why No Code and Yield are almost universally worshipped here when those two albums (alongwith Binaural and Riot Act) represent the band's weakest output to me. I love the first three albums and really like S/T and Backspacer

Nah you got it backwards. They were artists from 94-2003.




Welcome to the board

Thanks! That's one thing about this band; everybody has a part of their catalogue really close to their hearts.

Release_Me wrote:.

TLDR; early Eddie 'sounds' better but present day Eddie does much more with his voice. One of the reasons I'm liking the new songs is that Eddie sounds particularly good, thought none of these is as technically demanding as something like LROM.

I can't help but wonder though, whether if he stopped doing so much with his voice he'd start 'sounding' better to me again.

Another good comparison to how I feel about Lightning Bolt right now is the Got Some performance from Conan. I thought the template for an excellent song was there, but that the part where Ed sings "Got some if you need it...got some if you neeeeeeeed it" felt unbelievably weak and forced melodically. It turned out a part of that was him still struggling with the song and the part in question was much less egregious on the actual album (though still the weakest part of the song). Like I said earlier, I really hope this is the case with the chorus of this song, and that he's just still figuring out how to consistently nail the melody live.

And Why Go has a very obvious melody followed by a very percussive vocal line that leads into the next verse (and later the bridge). It's not a great melody, and it's not a particularly good song in my eyes, but it's a much more obvious melody than the one version of Lightning Bolt we have.