Red Mosquito

McParadigm wrote:

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Maybe something to do with that dying "promise me" line from his sis. He's got a tendency to put honor before intelligence, anyway.

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hmm maybe, i figured that promise was just something like raise him well, take care of him for me etc.

To summarize the "Ned is alive" theory: he was in the black cells during the same time as Jaqen H'Ghar, and recently it's been shown that Faceless Men can apparently change other people's faces as well as their own (since the Kindly Man changes Arya's face). Varys could have had Jaqen change Ned's face into something else and then made some random prisoner look like Ned; so someone else's head got chopped off, not Ned's.

Besides the "Another resurrection/suddenly back from the dead? GROAN" objection, I think what stands in the way of this--as someone else just pointed to--is Ned's honor. Do you really think he woulda taken he "easy way out"? Maybe, just maybe, if Varys made a "for the realm" argument that was really convincing. Also: just because the Kindly Man can do something, that doesn't mean that Jaqen can do it. Ned is dead, as far as I can tell.

kreng wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Spoiler: show

Maybe something to do with that dying "promise me" line from his sis. He's got a tendency to put honor before intelligence, anyway.

Spoiler: show

hmm maybe, i figured that promise was just something like raise him well, take care of him for me etc.

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Don't let that crazy bitch wife of yours near my so-(dies)

I'm fine with happy ending and such but Ned being alive would be lame.

Well clearly this series is headed towards a happy ending so

bada wrote:I'm fine with happy ending and such but Ned being alive would be lame.

It would be lame. Totally. But I'm not sure it would be happy. Faking your own death just to watch everything else fall apart around you. He's lost too much for his being alive to be a happy ending.

But, yes, I'd rather avoid all of that all together.

Honestly, though, I don't totally believe that Martin has an ending in mind for the series. Maybe once upon a time, when it was the newest of his many series, it had a chance. But now he's stretched and expanded everything into such detail (and can hardly be blamed for it, considering how long he's waited to have this kind of an audience reading his work). I'm also sure he's introduced some of the more open-ended plot points or speculative events as part of that expansion. He's developed a history for his world that emphasizes the cyclical or ongoing nature of these conflicts to the point where no ending will be satisfactory, and he's so thoroughly layered events that an all-threads wrap-up would, to be honest, feel downright silly.

My bet is that we are left with a game of thrones that goes on and on, and the sense that we have viewed at a microcosmic window some of the rich history of this fictional world. Or, when my wife asked me how I thought it would end, I shrugged and said, "George will die. The end."

I haven't really thought much about how I want it to end. Or how I expect it to end. I'm just enjoying the hell out of the ride.

McParadigm wrote:Well clearly this series is headed towards a happy ending so

Ha good point.

If it never ends or ends with all these dangling subplots, I'm gonna be disappointed.I want a story, not just a history lesson of an imaginary land.

Good luck with that. Martin may only be like 65, but he looks like a hobbit fucked some peat moss and then fed the resulting child nothing but tobacco throughout the most formative stages. He has to know that any ending he provides to this thing will result far more in bitter disappointment than it will in rapturous joy. So why even bother? Meanwhile, he's already making silly cryptic comments about how he wants the story to "end" with him and, frankly, I'm not sure what motivation he might have to write an ending. Fuck you guys. Give me your money, love me now, and hate me when I'm dead. Once that happens, I could give a shit.

McParadigm wrote:Good luck with that. Martin may only be like 65, but he looks like a hobbit fucked some peat moss and then fed the resulting child nothing but tobacco throughout the most formative stages. He has to know that any ending he provides to this thing will result far more in bitter disappointment than it will in rapturous joy. So why even bother? Meanwhile, he's already making silly cryptic comments about how he wants the story to "end" with him and, frankly, I'm not sure what motivation he might have to write an ending. Fuck you guys. Give me your money, love me now, and hate me when I'm dead. Once that happens, I could give a shit.

Thats why i usually try to avoid these types of things.

I am a huge fan of this sort of epic storytelling, and this is one of the best. I've only seen one of them successfully end--the Malazan Book of the Fallen. that was actually an even larger series (probably clocking in at 10 books and 11000 pages) and whose size and scope actually dwarfs A Song of Ice and Fire (a larger bodycount too, quite possibly), and it ended and ended well. So you CAN do it. That doesn't mean Martin can or will.

I do think he has an ending in mind, but I'm basing that on nothing but optimism and good will.

I also would not mind if the series doesn't end. I like that kind of ballsy storytelling. I'd prefer it have an ending, but I can respect not giving it one.

That aforementioned Malazan series never adopts an omniscient third person narrator, and has no formal objective history. So Erikson (the author) goes a step beyond the first person perspective Martin often writes from to making even history subjective. It made for some very complicated reading but I admired the move he was making. The author was an anthropologist and he writes like one.

Martin has told the ending to the tv-series creators, so no matter what there will be an ending. As for the books, there is only scheduled to be two more, one in 2014/15 and one in a few years, maybe 2017/18.

I believe he has an ending for all the POV characters. That doesn't mean he won't adjust accordingly. But I believe Benioff and Weis when they say Martin has told them how the books end.

Anders wrote:Martin has told the ending to the tv-series creators, so no matter what there will be an ending. As for the books, there is only scheduled to be two more, one in 2014/15 and one in a few years, maybe 2017/18.

Yeah, Martin ain't one for keeping to schedules. I won't put too much stock in anything you "hear" about years/dates.

Also, Martin has implied more than once that this thing could be more than 7 books.

stip wrote:I also would not mind if the series doesn't end. I like that kind of ballsy storytelling. I'd prefer it have an ending, but I can respect not giving it one.

That aforementioned Malazan series never adopts an omniscient third person narrator, and has no formal objective history. So Erikson (the author) goes a step beyond the first person perspective Martin often writes from to making even history subjective. It made for some very complicated reading but I admired the move he was making. The author was an anthropologist and he writes like one.

Malazan only partly works for me. At its best it's brilliant, really second to none, but other times it's as if he's rambling on for hours, forcing himself to use every single remote character and plot device. If only he had BO'B as a producer.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Anders wrote:Martin has told the ending to the tv-series creators, so no matter what there will be an ending. As for the books, there is only scheduled to be two more, one in 2014/15 and one in a few years, maybe 2017/18.

Yeah, Martin ain't one for keeping to schedules. I won't put too much stock in anything you "hear" about years/dates.

Also, Martin has implied more than once that this thing could be more than 7 books.

I hope for more books. There just doesn't seem to be enough time left in the series for everything to happen.

I don't know. Depends on where he's going, I guess. But I don't see any reason why this thing couldn't be wrapped up really well in only 2 more books.