Goods Thread (for when 10C puts things up for sale)

[stip]

do people want them to stop designing and selling stuff on their website that no one has to buy until another album is out? If that's the case, lets establish the ground rules that are necessary for the band to sell things and people to not get upset about it.

We need to work out how long after an album is out one is allowed to sell merchandise, as well as what kinds of merchandise are and are not acceptable.

[@SkitchP]

Full disclosure ... if I was in a band, and someone came to me and said, "Hey can we make some dog collars with your album art on it and sell them." I'd probably declare it hilarious and say fuck it, go ahead.

Which would be a major miscalculation of judgement if you spent most of your career discussing how evil corporate america is.

*sighs

You don't agree it's a miscalculation in terms of perception? even if it's not a perception you share?

[stip]

it is the job of the fan club to keep coming up with things to give to the fans. They are doing their job. Buy it or not buy it as you see fit (I wouldn't buy any of this stuff, so I won't). Tenclub is not preventing pearl jam from releasing new music.

[@SkitchP]

it is the job of the fan club to keep coming up with things to give to the fans. They are doing their job. Buy it or not buy it as you see fit (I wouldn't buy any of this stuff, so I won't). Tenclub is not preventing pearl jam from releasing new music.

You underestimate the power of Santos.

[TheDapperGent]

Happy Birthday Stip. Its tough to argue with a person clinging to an ideal. Even if its something as ultimatly insignificant as a group of guys making music. Watch out for the PJ megaconglomerate.

[stip]

Full disclosure ... if I was in a band, and someone came to me and said, "Hey can we make some dog collars with your album art on it and sell them." I'd probably declare it hilarious and say fuck it, go ahead.

Which would be a major miscalculation of judgement if you spent most of your career discussing how evil corporate america is.

*sighs

You don't agree it's a miscalculation in terms of perception? even if it's not a perception you share?

I guess you are right in that given the perceptions people have it is a miscalculation. My frustration is with those perceptions. There are a number of different arguments that people conflate, and this is a pet peeve of mine.

1. The aesthetic argument that artistic integrity cannot survive an association with money. It's an overly simplistic (and wrong) argument that people SHOULD, in theory, out grow once they are no longer mentally teenagers. Professional musicians are professionals, and they (all of them) are doing this for a living. There is a difference between recognizing that there is a business side of things and allowing the business side of things to taint your product. I have a REALLY hard time envisioning that this is what is happening here. The goods part of the organization is doing what it is supposed to be doing. It's not their fault PJ can't get their shit together to finish the album (although they just got out of the studio again, so a lot of these complaints should be directed at the past few years, not right now).

2. The critique of corporate power as a distorting anti-democratic force within society. The issue is not money per se. It is power, and the ten club's desire to make money (or Pearl Jam's) is not engaging any of the relevant aspects of the critique



There are places where these things can overlap, but they are not the same, and I think many people tend to misunderstand both of these things.

There is also the fact that PJ, when they were a younger band, would say things that were idealistic and kinda stupid in a noble way and people expect them to somehow still cleave to these things 15-20 years later--especially things that were largely unworkable and wrong when they were said the first time, but nice sentiments nevertheless.

[Jorge]

There is also the fact that PJ, when they were a younger band, would say things that were idealistic and kinda stupid in a noble way and people expect them to somehow still cleave to these things 15-20 years later--especially things that were largely unworkable and wrong when they were said the first time, but nice sentiments nevertheless.

I'm not arguing against any of your points here, but I'd like to point out that I've noticed when people try to write off PJ's former "philosophies" they seem to attribute them to the foolhardiness of youth, like they were a bunch of idealistic would-be punk rock teenagers. But they were adults in their 30s.

[stip]

There is also the fact that PJ, when they were a younger band, would say things that were idealistic and kinda stupid in a noble way and people expect them to somehow still cleave to these things 15-20 years later--especially things that were largely unworkable and wrong when they were said the first time, but nice sentiments nevertheless.

I'm not arguing against any of your points here, but I'd like to point out that I've noticed when people try to write off PJ's former "philosophies" they seem to attribute them to the foolhardiness of youth, like they were a bunch of idealistic would-be punk rock teenagers. But they were adults in their 30s.

yeah, its easy to forget that. Eddie was like what, 27, when Ten came out. But they were adults in their 30s with the values of alienated punk rock teenagers.

[TheDapperGent]

Im an adult in my 30s and Im certainly not infallible. Nobody is at any age. Im glad the biggest rock band of that era chose the path they did but the fact remains that they are/were a hugely succesful rock act. They arent Fugazi and have said as much.

[surfndestroy]

it is the job of the fan club to keep coming up with things to give to the fans. They are doing their job. Buy it or not buy it as you see fit (I wouldn't buy any of this stuff, so I won't). Tenclub is not preventing pearl jam from releasing new music.

I fully agree with you here. However, I do think a band that has made public statements when they were in their 40's regarding greed shouldn't be selling $40 dog collars.

You come across as an apologist for the band when you try to right off public statements and stance they've made as folly of youth when they weren't made in their youth.

Do you think it's a good thing they are selling dog collars? How do you feel about the first Mother Love Bone item they sell is a dog collar? Is making money from the dead guy's disbanded band is a worthy venture?

[stip]

it is the job of the fan club to keep coming up with things to give to the fans. They are doing their job. Buy it or not buy it as you see fit (I wouldn't buy any of this stuff, so I won't). Tenclub is not preventing pearl jam from releasing new music.

I fully agree with you here. However, I do think a band that has made public statements when they were in their 40's regarding greed shouldn't be selling $40 dog collars.

You come across as an apologist for the band when you try to right off public statements and stance they've made as folly of youth when they weren't made in their youth.

Do you think it's a good thing they are selling dog collars? How do you feel about the first Mother Love Bone item they sell is a dog collar? Is making money from the dead guy's disbanded band is a worthy venture?

oh come on. I think it's a stupid product, but some people love to dress their dogs up in shit like this, so more power to them. I don't think it's a problem that they're selling dog collars at all.


I think the mother love bone thing is kinda clever in a fun and stupid way. Someone said earlier they should have done temple of the dog. I agree. I really don't see a huge difference between the dog collar and any other article of clothing, or a poster or a sticker. It is a different vehicle for displaying the band name. I hardly think this is dishonoring the legacy. I trust that guys who were in the band with him would respect that. Maybe he would have found it hilarious.

40 dollar dog collars isn't a question of greed, especially the way they've usually talked about. Greed is a problem when it comes at a cost. When other people, possibly including yourself, suffer from the desire to accumulate wealth at the expense of all other values. Who is harmed here? Are pearl jam dog collars an essential product that needy people can no longer afford cuz they are priced at 40 dollars instead of 20$

[mastaflatch]

my dog ran away because i couldn't afford a MLB dog collar

[stip]

if only PJ had made these essential items for sale at a more reasonable $20 you might still have your dog.

Greedy corporate assholes.

[TheDapperGent]

Two words. Music snobs. Its not the bands problem or any bands. Its your problem.

[MattA75]

Wait'll they get a load of what the Ten Club's rolling out next week!

[stip]

if PJ sold a log I might buy it.

[verb_to_trust]

They already came out with "anal" log.....perhaps a future log release will be a "logical extension" of the previous log.

[TheDapperGent]

Its log, its log, its big its heavy its wood. Its log, its log, its better than bad its good!

[BurtReynolds]

i dont really care that they are selling overpriced dog collars to idiots (other than its pretty cheesy) and I dont really care what they've said about it in the past. I do think that this and about a million other things they've done in the last few years show that they aren't really that interested in making meaningful music or that they dont particularly care about the band anymore. I could be wrong.

of course dog collars dont stop them from making new music. Dog collars are an effect, not a cause. Maybe if all this stupid merch was in support of a new album...

[verb_to_trust]

The worst part of it all is not the merch....but how TERRIBLE the merch is.

Anybody see the Backspacer "sessions" jacket? For a cool 370 bucks you can look like an idiot and listen to The Fixer through the built in speakers!!