Red Mosquito

dimejinky99 wrote:Cool read...bit spoilerish
http://insidemovies.ew.com/2014/10/23/p ... ve-armies/

Spoiler: show

Wow. The entire script. What a strange thing to share in an article!

McParadigm wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Cool read...bit spoilerish
http://insidemovies.ew.com/2014/10/23/p ... ve-armies/

Spoiler: show

Wow. The entire script. What a strange thing to share in an article!

8.5/10

that doodle is probably as in depth and true to the book as anything we're gonna end up seeing

dimejinky99 wrote:that doodle is probably as in depth and true to the book as anything we're gonna end up seeing

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:that doodle is probably as in depth and true to the book as anything we're gonna end up seeing

ABNorman wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:that doodle is probably as in depth and true to the book as anything we're gonna end up seeing

Ya blew it.

BurtReynolds wrote:

ABNorman wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:that doodle is probably as in depth and true to the book as anything we're gonna end up seeing

ABNorman wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

ABNorman wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:that doodle is probably as in depth and true to the book as anything we're gonna end up seeing

The undead army pisses me off more than the eagles. Completely undermines the big battle scene in Return of the King.

BurtReynolds wrote:The undead army pisses me off more than the eagles. Completely undermines the big battle scene in Return of the King.

You know I hear people say that a lot. What's the problem with them? I like 'em.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:The undead army pisses me off more than the eagles. Completely undermines the big battle scene in Return of the King.

You know I hear people say that a lot. What's the problem with them? I like 'em.

deus ex machina

Mecca wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:The undead army pisses me off more than the eagles. Completely undermines the big battle scene in Return of the King.

You know I hear people say that a lot. What's the problem with them? I like 'em.

deus ex machina

Yeah. Essentially the bad guys never had a chance.

I guess. But, I mean, they're the bad guys, so it's not like they ever had a chance anyway. But I see what you're saying.

I read that Jackson wasn't crazy about them either, but kept them in anyway.

Probably would have helped if they were corporeal. The orcs could have hacked a few down, and it wouldn't be a total slaughter.

The army of the dead are actually in the books but aren't used to ensure victory, it's more about making them fulfil their oath.
Plus as big as the battle for minas tirith is, it really is just a pointless victory, they still don't know where frodo and the ring are, so they decide to try buy him more time by going and challenging Sauron himself at the black gate. In so doing, playing on Saurons fear that one of his enemies has taken the ring for himself, presumably Aragorn or Gandalf. And he doesn't consider at all that they would look to destroy it to be rid of him. The dead army would be probably pointless at that confrontation, being dead Sauron would probably have a way of using them or turning them For his own sides.

In the book and extended edition the mouth of Sauron comes forth. His ambassador. That scene is awesome in both book and film though they did make changes to it.

“And thereupon the door of the Black Gate was thrown open with a great clang, and out of it there came an embassy from the Dark Tower.
At its head there rode a tall and evil shape, mounted upon a black horse, if horse it was; for it was huge and hideous, and its face was a frightful mask, more like a skull than a living head, and in the sockets of its eyes and in its nostrils there burned a flame. The rider was robed all in black, and black was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith but a living man. The Lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dûr he was, and his name is remembered in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it, and he said: ‘I am the Mouth of Sauron.’ But it is told that he was a renegade, who came of the race of those that are named the Black Númenóreans; for they established their dwellings in Middle-earth during the years of Sauron’s domination, and they worshipped him, being enamoured of evil knowledge. And he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again, and because of his cunning he grew ever higher in the Lord’s favour; and he learned great sorcery, and knew much of the mind of Sauron; and he was more cruel than any orc.
He it was that now rode out, and with him came only a small company of black-harnessed soldiery, and a single banner, black but bearing on it in red the Evil Eye. Now halting a few paces before the Captains of the West he looked them up and down and laughed.
‘Is there anyone in this rout with authority to treat with me?’ he asked. ‘Or indeed with wit to understand me? Not thou at least!’ he mocked, turning to Aragorn with scorn. ‘It needs more to make a king than a piece of Elvish glass, or a rabble such as this. Why, any brigand of the hills can show as good a following!’
Aragorn said naught in answer, but he took the other’s eye and held it, and for a moment they strove thus; but soon, though Aragorn did not stir nor move hand to weapon, the other quailed and gave back as if menaced with a blow. ‘I am a herald and ambassador, and may not be assailed!’ he cried.
‘Where such laws hold,’ said Gandalf, ‘it is also the custom for ambassadors to use less insolence. But no one has threatened you. You have naught to fear from us, until your errand is done. But unless your master has come to new wisdom, then with all his servants you will be in great peril.’
‘So!’ said the Messenger. ‘Then thou art the spokesman, old greybeard? Have we not heard of thee at whiles, and of thy wanderings, ever hatching plots and mischief at a safe distance? But this time thou hast stuck out thy nose too far, Master Gandalf; and thou shalt see what comes to him who sets his foolish webs before the feet of Sauron the Great. I have tokens that I was bidden to show to thee - to thee in especial, if thou shouldst dare to come.’ He signed to one of his guards, and he came forward bearing a bundle swathed in black cloths.
The Messenger put these aside, and there to the wonder and dismay of all the Captains he held up first the short sword that Sam had carried, and next a grey cloak with an elven-brooch, and last the coat of mithril-mail that Frodo had worn wrapped in his tattered garments. A blackness came before their eyes, and it seemed to them in a moment of silence that the world stood still, but their hearts were dead and their last hope gone. Pippin who stood behind Prince Imrahil sprang forward with a cry of grief.
‘Silence!’ said Gandalf sternly, thrusting him back; but the Messenger laughed aloud.
‘So you have yet another of these imps with you!’ he cried. ‘What use you find in them I cannot guess; but to send them as spies into Mordor is beyond even your accustomed folly. Still, I thank him, for it is plain that this brat at least has seen these tokens before, and it would be vain for you to deny them now.’
‘I do not wish to deny them,’ said Gandalf. ‘Indeed, I know them all and all their history, and despite your scorn, foul Mouth of Sauron, you cannot say as much. But why do you bring them here?’
‘Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West, and spy from the little rat-land of the Shire - nay, do not start! We know it well - here are the marks of a conspiracy. Now, maybe he that bore these things was a creature that you would not grieve to lose, and maybe otherwise: one dear to you, perhaps? If so, take swift counsel with what little wit is left to you. For Sauron does not love spies, and what his fate shall be depends now on your choice.’
No one answered him; but he saw their faces grey with fear and the horror in their eyes, and he laughed again, for it seemed to him that his sport went well. ‘Good, good!’ he said. ‘He was dear to you, I see. Or else his errand was one that you did not wish to fail? It has. And now he shall endure the slow torment of years, as long and slow as our arts in the Great Tower can contrive, and never be released, unless maybe when he is “changed and broken, so that he may come to you, and you shall see what you have done. This shall surely be unless you accept my Lord’s terms.’
‘Name the terms,’ said Gandalf steadily, but those nearby saw the anguish in his face, and now he seemed an old and wizened man, crushed, defeated at last. They did not doubt that he would accept.
‘These are the terms,’ said the Messenger, and smiled as he eyed them one by one. ‘The rabble of Gondor and its deluded allies shall withdraw at once beyond the Anduin, first taking oaths never again to assail Sauron the Great in arms, open or secret. All lands east of the Anduin shall be Sauron’s for ever, solely. West of the Anduin as far as the Misty Mountains and the Gap of Rohan shall be tributary to Mordor, and men there shall bear no weapons, but shall have leave to govern their own affairs. But they shall help to rebuild Isengard which they have wantonly destroyed, and that shall be Sauron’s, and there his lieutenant shall dwell: not Saruman, but one more worthy of trust.’
Looking in the Messenger’s eyes they read his thought. He was to be that lieutenant, and gather all that remained of the West under his sway; he would be their tyrant and they his slaves.
But Gandalf said: ‘This is much to demand for the delivery of one servant: that your Master should receive in exchange what he must else fight many a war to gain! Or has the field of Gondor destroyed his hope in war, so that he falls to haggling? And if indeed we rated this prisoner so high, what surety have we that Sauron, the Base Master of Treachery, will keep his part?'
“Where is this prisoner? Let him be brought forth and yielded to us, and then we will consider these demands.’
It seemed then to Gandalf, intent, watching him as a man engaged in fencing with a deadly foe, that for the taking of a breath the Messenger was at a loss; yet swiftly he laughed again.
‘Do not bandy words in your insolence with the Mouth of Sauron!’ he cried. ‘Surety you crave! Sauron gives none. If you sue for his clemency you must first do his bidding. These are his terms. Take them or leave them!’
‘These we will take!’ said Gandalf suddenly. He cast aside his cloak and a white light shone forth like a sword in that black place. Before his upraised hand the foul Messenger recoiled, and Gandalf coming seized and took from him the tokens: coat, cloak, and sword. ‘These we will take in memory of our friend,’ he cried. ‘But as for your terms, we reject them utterly. Get you gone, for your embassy is over and death is near to you. We did not come here to waste words in treating with Sauron, faithless and accursed; still less with one of his slaves. Begone!’
Then the Messenger of Mordor laughed no more. His face was twisted with amazement and anger to the likeness of some wild beast that, as it crouches on its prey, is smitten on the muzzle with a stinging rod. Rage filled him and his mouth slavered, and shapeless sounds of fury came strangling from his throat. But he looked at the fell faces of the Captains and their deadly eyes, and fear overcame his wrath. He gave a great cry, and turned, leaped upon his steed, and with his company galloped madly back to Cirith Gorgor. But as they went his soldiers blew their horns in signal long arranged; and even before they came to the gate Sauron sprang his trap.”

It's much shorter in the extended edition of the film. Though the mouth of Sauron scene really should have been in the film. Aragorn chops his head off.

that wasn't in the regular version?

stip wrote:that wasn't in the regular version?

It's kind of insane just how much stuff wasn't in the theatrical cuts. You never even see Saruman die, for Christ's sake!