Red Mosquito

numbers wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

Coach wrote:Boomer Esiason during one of those "cbs sports radio minutes" made a pretty compelling case for Don Mattingly, which now has me second guessing his status. I guess he's out for good now unless the Veterans Committee steps up.

Trammel was HUGE when I was a kid. Don't know enough about his stats/intangibles, but in the kids baseball card trading world, we all coveted his cards.

I can't possibly imagine someone putting together a reasonable case for Mattingly because he's so far away from being a legitimate Hall of Famer, but I would be interested in hearing the argument.

It worked for Jim Rice.

Rice was a much better candidate than Mattingly, though. He still shouldn't be in, but he was a lot closer.

Rice got in as some kind of anti-PED vote. I don't know that he has that much better of a case than Mattingly, maybe a little bit but not a lot.

I bet Rice was juicing.

I wouldn't be surprised. He is a stellar analyst, though.

As if there were any possibility I was serious.

It was so obvious I wasn't sure.

Rice is so bad that it's funny, so I actually dont mind that they keep him on the air.

Sorry to slightly interrupt the good discussion here, but the Pro Football HOF announced its finalists tonight:

Players/Coaches
Morten Andersen
Jerome Bettis
Tim Brown
Don Coryell
Terrell Davis (!)
Tony Dungy
Kevin Greene
Charles Haley
Marvin Harrison
Jimmy Johnson
John Lynch
Orlando Pace
Junior Seau
Will Shields
Kurt Warner

Senior
Mick Tinglehoff

Contributors
Bill Polian
Ron Wolf

====

I would put my vote for Haley, Pace, Seau, Warner, and reserve a subjective homer vote for TD based on this objective article:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... -longevity

I was hoping you'd post that article. I'm all about it. Players who had insane peaks like TD and Kurt Warner (who had two) don't get enough respect. Especially in a sport where crazy peaks often win titles.

Gotta be Greene's year. I don't see how you can keep him out again. 160 sacks.

brown, haley, seau, pace, green.polian

Green Habit wrote:Sorry to slightly interrupt the good discussion here, but the Pro Football HOF announced its finalists tonight:

Players/Coaches
Morten Andersen
Jerome Bettis
Tim Brown
Don Coryell
Terrell Davis (!)
Tony Dungy
Kevin Greene
Charles Haley
Marvin Harrison
Jimmy Johnson
John Lynch
Orlando Pace
Junior Seau
Will Shields
Kurt Warner

Senior
Mick Tinglehoff

Contributors
Bill Polian
Ron Wolf

====

I would put my vote for Haley, Pace, Seau, Warner, and reserve a subjective homer vote for TD based on this objective article:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... -longevity

First let me say I'm a big Broncos fan.

To compare him against Sayers and then just toss out his return ability is poor. It's a big part of the reason he got in. The article says it's about the better back. The HOF is about the enshrining the best players, not the suggestive "better back".

The fact that numerous guys came in after TD and put up very good stats (Mike Anderson had 1500 yds) shows me that they had a very good system in place for RBs and why they felt comfortable trading a pro-bowl RB (Portis) later on.

TD had 3 very good years (1 was replicated by Anderson). Sayers had 5 and in his worst season, his ypc was the same as TD's career avg. Now also throw in Sayer's all-world return ability and I don't think the comparison stands.

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

Coach wrote:Boomer Esiason during one of those "cbs sports radio minutes" made a pretty compelling case for Don Mattingly, which now has me second guessing his status. I guess he's out for good now unless the Veterans Committee steps up.

Trammel was HUGE when I was a kid. Don't know enough about his stats/intangibles, but in the kids baseball card trading world, we all coveted his cards.

What was his argument?

It was something along the lines of a super low amount of strikeouts and a period of time (can't remember how many years) where Mattingly dominated in hits, RBIs, home runs, and batting average.

Again, I'm not going to die on a hill making a case for a Yankee

Green Habit wrote:Sorry to slightly interrupt the good discussion here, but the Pro Football HOF announced its finalists tonight:

Players/Coaches
Morten Andersen
Jerome Bettis
Tim Brown
Don Coryell
Terrell Davis (!)
Tony Dungy
Kevin Greene
Charles Haley
Marvin Harrison
Jimmy Johnson
John Lynch
Orlando Pace
Junior Seau
Will Shields
Kurt Warner

Senior
Mick Tinglehoff

Contributors
Bill Polian
Ron Wolf

====

I would put my vote for Haley, Pace, Seau, Warner, and reserve a subjective homer vote for TD based on this objective article:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... -longevity

Rooting for Sheilds and Tinglehoff....obviously.

Fuck You Jobu wrote:First let me say I'm a big Broncos fan.

To compare him against Sayers and then just toss out his return ability is poor. It's a big part of the reason he got in. The article says it's about the better back. The HOF is about the enshrining the best players, not the suggestive "better back".

The fact that numerous guys came in after TD and put up very good stats (Mike Anderson had 1500 yds) shows me that they had a very good system in place for RBs and why they felt comfortable trading a pro-bowl RB later on.

TD had 3 very good years (1 was replicated by Anderson). Sayers had 5 and in his worst season, his ypc was the same as TD's career avg. Now also throw in Sayer's all-world return ability and I don't think the comparison stands.

I can understand this argument to some extent. What I really want is someone associated with that running game to be enshrined in Canton. Shanny, Alex Gibbs, and Tom Nalen would all satisfy that. But at this point it appears that TD has a better shot than any of them.

Coach wrote:

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

Coach wrote:Boomer Esiason during one of those "cbs sports radio minutes" made a pretty compelling case for Don Mattingly, which now has me second guessing his status. I guess he's out for good now unless the Veterans Committee steps up.

Trammel was HUGE when I was a kid. Don't know enough about his stats/intangibles, but in the kids baseball card trading world, we all coveted his cards.

What was his argument?

It was something along the lines of a super low amount of strikeouts and a period of time (can't remember how many years) where Mattingly dominated in hits, RBIs, home runs, and batting average.

Again, I'm not going to die on a hill making a case for a Yankee

Led the league in hits twice, RBI once, BA once, 2B thrice, all over a three year period. He'd be a great addition to the Hall of Pretty Good.

How anyone can think Kurt Warner is HOF worthy is beyond me...do they just forget about what he was from about 2003-2006?

And I still don't get Biggio in baseball either...

Green Habit wrote:

Fuck You Jobu wrote:First let me say I'm a big Broncos fan.

To compare him against Sayers and then just toss out his return ability is poor. It's a big part of the reason he got in. The article says it's about the better back. The HOF is about the enshrining the best players, not the suggestive "better back".

The fact that numerous guys came in after TD and put up very good stats (Mike Anderson had 1500 yds) shows me that they had a very good system in place for RBs and why they felt comfortable trading a pro-bowl RB later on.

TD had 3 very good years (1 was replicated by Anderson). Sayers had 5 and in his worst season, his ypc was the same as TD's career avg. Now also throw in Sayer's all-world return ability and I don't think the comparison stands.

I can understand this argument to some extent. What I really want is someone associated with that running game to be enshrined in Canton. Shanny, Alex Gibbs, and Tom Nalen would all satisfy that. But at this point it appears that TD has a better shot than any of them.

Interesting. Maybe Shanny will goto the Bears reunite with Cutler, win a couple SBs and get in the HOF.

Ok, so TD it is.

MattA75 wrote: And I still don't get Biggio in baseball either...

Seriously? Interested to hear your argument.

BigRedLedbetter wrote:

MattA75 wrote: And I still don't get Biggio in baseball either...

Seriously? Interested to hear your argument.

Yeah me too. I didn't like Biggio either until I really looked at his career and stats.

cutuphalfdead wrote:
He'd be a great addition to the Hall of Pretty Good.

Mattingly is my favorite baseball player of all time. But, I agree with you, he's not worthy of getting into the HOF.

He was certainly trajecting that way until he started having back issues. All of his power numbers dropped. He just didn't have the longevity required to put up the stats that'd get him in.