HALL OF FAME!!!!!!

[Self]

I don't get the feeling Spenno was joking. He's not really known for that.

[Kaius]

That's right fuckers. Especially when it comes to hip hop - which truly carries on the rebellious legacy of social uprising of RnR moreso than the Journeys of the world (who are rock and roll only in name and more pop than anything else, so they deserved the long wait, as does Bon Jovi and many others whining about their cold shoulder).

I think rock n' roll, in terms of the music itself, has nothing to do with rebellious social uprising or whatever.

Looking at the list of artists in the RnR hall of fame there aren't a lot of artists that really don't deserve to be in it.

Geez, where do I start?

James Brown, Johnny Cash, Stevie Wonder, Bob Dylan, Simon & Garfunkel, Elton John, Joni Mitchell, Bruce Springsteen, etc.

Great artists, but they didn't, or don't, make rock music.

I'd throw out 80% of the inductees without hesitation.

And how do you have a thing like this without the Stooges? Fuckin' crazy.

I don't even know where to start with this. The very FIRST class that was inducted included: Little Richard, Fats Domino, James Brown, Ray Charles, and Sam Cooke. All black dudes who did not play guitar. Chuck Berry was one of the other ones and he did play guitar. That was the FIRST fucking HOF class.

"Rock" is a sub-genre of Rock n Roll. Rock n Roll was a cultural movement that started in the 50s that stemmed from American racial segregation. It was the music that crossed racial barriers, hence you had Elvis playing 'black' music and shocking the public, or the Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin playing the American southern blues of Muddy Waters and Robert Johnson.

At some point, white dudes playing guitar (which is obviously one of my favorite sub-genres of Rock n Roll) became the term "rock" and somehow this all got confused with Rock n Roll. What people forgot was the "n Roll" part which is demonstrated in modern soul and R&B. Cultural uprising was the entire reason Rock n Roll became something we still talk about. It's not just a genre of music. This confusion is why you have douches like Eddie Trunk whining about any group that doesn't play guitar as something that should not belong in the HOF. Really if I'm being honest, just a shit ton of white privelage. The creators and keepers of Rock n Roll are in that first class that was inducted. The HOF creators knew what they were doing cause they were around for the start of it in the 50s, and they wanted to preserve it in the institution.

I'm not trying to be a pretentious condescending ass here, this is all on historical record, it's in libraries and many many well done documentaries. Hell, just go to Cleveland and spend half a day. Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger, and Bob Dylan would be the first ones to tell you all of this. So, if anyone gets mad at me for saying this, blame them. I can't wait to see Tupac get inducted, I'd be embarrassed for our favorite band if they didn't go in with atleast one other act that really carried the spirit of Rock n Roll.

[Kaius]

"Rock n Roll" DOES NOT EQUAL only "Rock".

"Rock" is the sub-genre, the one you usually think of when you think of The Who, Stones, Led Zep, The Ramones, etc. Guitar/Drums/Bass oriented music, w/ the focus on the guitar.

There's also the "n Roll" part, which is where Soul/R&B/Hip Hop/Disco/Dance Pop come in.

And shit, it's not just specific genres so if an electronic artist does something that upends the establishment, I'd count that as Rock n Roll too.

Ever see Kendrick Lamar perform in front of a live band? It's a dude performing syncopated rhymes over a drum beat and a guitar playing, I don't see how that's much different than Bob Dylan's style of music except the color of his skin. It's all Rock n Roll. It all originates from either Blues or Folk.

Yes

[Jorge]

There is also the "n roll" part.

[Self]

Spenno is rockist.

[96583UP]

before this thread goes any further, i think someone needs to define 'rock and roll'

should be a simple and non-controversial exercise

then we can all be on the same page and then rank something

[E.H. Ruddock]

I don't think we have to define anything. It won't change the HoF's definition of it and their criteria for letting people in, so fuck it.

[96583UP]

that's more of a 'rock n' roll' thing to say and not so much a 'rock and roll' thing to say

[Self]

I don't think we have to define anything. It won't change the HoF's definition of it and their criteria for letting people in, so fuck it.

Soooo...no defining. What about ranking?

[Kaius]

I don't think we have to define anything. It won't change the HoF's definition of it and their criteria for letting people in, so fuck it.

Why do you hate the blacks

[Bi_3]

Spenno is rockist.

But Tupac? He's more legend than legendary. I would put NWA before Tupac.

[Jorge]

NWA were indeed inducted before Tupac

[Kaius]

They're in the 'n roll' wing of the Hall.

[Bi_3]

NWA were indeed inducted before Tupac

*Doesn't make Tupac any better or more relevant.

[Kaius]

NWA were indeed inducted before Tupac

*Doesn't make Tupac any better or more relevant.

why does everyone hate blacks

[Kevin Davis]

While I think not considering Bruce Springsteen a rock artist is clearly the product of either bias or sheer unfamiliarity, I can understand why one might object to the inclusion of musicians of any and all genres just because they embody some vaguely ephemeral "spirit of rock and roll." There is no doubt that the Hall has inducted many acts who are far more accurately categorized in other genres, and I think you're going out on a pretty flimsy limb if you think that soul and R&B and especially rap are "subgenres" of rock and roll -- plot points on a spectrum that may not be as far apart as some think, perhaps, but ultimately as easily differentiated as football and baseball.

That said, if you're like me and believe that there are things in life worth being highly principled over and that the procedural integrity of an organization which gives trophies to entertainers is not one of them, it's easy to write those technicalities off and enjoy the Rock Hall for the dog and pony show it is, for the effect it has on once a year encouraging people to discuss music with a universal reference point, and for the plethora of side conversations it inevitably prompts. Did I think it was somehow "important" that Nirvana got into the Hall? No. Did I think it was fun watching Kim Gordon and St. Vincent play their songs with Krist and Dave and Pat backing them, and did I enjoy the cultural moment they had as a result? Absolutely. Why the hell not?

[E.H. Ruddock]

I don't think we have to define anything. It won't change the HoF's definition of it and their criteria for letting people in, so fuck it.

Why do you hate the blacks

Wat. I'm on the side of letting everyone in, kouse

[96583UP]

just cause Dave A is a drummer doesn't make him black

[Bi_3]

I don't think we have to define anything. It won't change the HoF's definition of it and their criteria for letting people in, so fuck it.

Why do you hate the blacks

Wat. I'm on the side of letting everyone in, kouse

Stay #Woke ruddo.

[Birds in Hell]

Going out on a limb here and saying that Spenno might be trolling a bit. He seems like an intelligent guy, so I'd venture that he wouldn't use The Stooges as an example without first Googling whether or not they actually are in the HOF (they are).

Sorry/not sorry, if I spoiled the joke.

Haha, no, I'm just an idiot.