Red Mosquito

cutuphalfdead wrote:I'll likely sign up for HBO Now when GoT comes back so I can hate-watch that, and that'll give me a chance to finally watch this.

wise choice.

It's...alarming how Seasons 1 and 3 both had a twist centered around landscaping.

Simple Torture wrote:It's...alarming how Seasons 1 and 3 both had a twist centered around landscaping.

Ok, I haven't watched the finale yet but can I say I did a double take an episode (or two?) back when the camera focused on... something odd ... during a scene. And I legit wondered about this.

Now, I'm super excited to see what happens!

Satisfying overall, though some odd choices

Spoiler: show

Not a big fan of the Scooby doo plot device where a bad guy explains the whole thing. It’s supposed to be about detectives. Let them piece it together.

Thought the kids on the bikes would be the last shot and bring the story full circle. Going to the bar and then Vietnam didn’t make much sense to me.

daft twat wrote:Satisfying overall, though some odd choices

Spoiler: show

Not a big fan of the Scooby doo plot device where a bad guy explains the whole thing. It’s supposed to be about detectives. Let them piece it together.

Thought the kids on the bikes would be the last shot and bring the story full circle. Going to the bar and then Vietnam didn’t make much sense to me.

I was a bit disappointed, partially for the same reason. Either reveal the plot through the events of the story or don’t. I do not want a monologue 60 mins into the final episode.

Spoiler: show

on the vietnam thing, was the whole season a Jacobs Ladder remake? ‘Dead boy and lost girl’

There were a couple of tantalizing ambiguities / small twists in the finale that I really did like. Spoilers, obviously:

--Did Wayne ever remember why he was in Greenland, or did he ever really forget? I think there are plenty of ways to read the glances between the characters, and some involve him recognizing Julie for just a moment and some are him really, really not knowing.
--What's Henry going to do with the slip of paper with the address on it? Give it to Elisa? If Wayne did recognize Julie (or remembered why he was there), he made a conscious decision to not say anything to her about her true identity, probably to not stir shit up and make her feel like she was in danger. But then why give the slip of paper to Henry? If he gives it to Elisa, she will investigate and figure out "Mary's" identity pretty quickly, causing the kind of trouble Wayne was trying to avoid.
--Julie named her daughter Lucy, after her mother--it's heartbreaking when you realize that Julie had no idea, probably, that her mother basically sold her and her dead brother away for enough money to buy a couple of speedballs.
--I'm glad that Mr. Hoyt ended up being as in-the-dark as the rest of most of the characters--I have to believe he had an inkling of what was going on, at least, but revealing the season's apparent big-bad as a washed-out, sad man trying to hold things together (while still holding plenty of power and potential danger) was a nice twist.

Simple Torture wrote:There were a couple of tantalizing ambiguities / small twists in the finale that I really did like. Spoilers, obviously:

--Did Wayne ever remember why he was in Greenland, or did he ever really forget? I think there are plenty of ways to read the glances between the characters, and some involve him recognizing Julie for just a moment and some are him really, really not knowing.

I go back and forth on this. I think he feigned forgetting. Even though this case been with him for his life and essentially made his life, he may have come to the conclusion that breaking the case and bringing closure to him was not as important as this poor lady getting to lead the rest of her life in anonymity and safely.

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:There were a couple of tantalizing ambiguities / small twists in the finale that I really did like. Spoilers, obviously:

--Did Wayne ever remember why he was in Greenland, or did he ever really forget? I think there are plenty of ways to read the glances between the characters, and some involve him recognizing Julie for just a moment and some are him really, really not knowing.

I go back and forth on this. I think he feigned forgetting. Even though this case been with him for his life and essentially made his life, he may have come to the conclusion that breaking the case and bringing closure to him was not as important as this poor lady getting to lead the rest of her life in anonymity and safely.

Certainly not a bad read. But then why give Henry the slip of paper? Why not just say, "I don't know why I was out there, I don't even know where Greenland is..." I'm not knocking your theory or the show for this--Im glad it can go back and forth.

Simple Torture wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:There were a couple of tantalizing ambiguities / small twists in the finale that I really did like. Spoilers, obviously:

--Did Wayne ever remember why he was in Greenland, or did he ever really forget? I think there are plenty of ways to read the glances between the characters, and some involve him recognizing Julie for just a moment and some are him really, really not knowing.

I go back and forth on this. I think he feigned forgetting. Even though this case been with him for his life and essentially made his life, he may have come to the conclusion that breaking the case and bringing closure to him was not as important as this poor lady getting to lead the rest of her life in anonymity and safely.

Certainly not a bad read. But then why give Henry the slip of paper? Why not just say, "I don't know why I was out there, I don't even know where Greenland is..." I'm not knocking your theory or the show for this--Im glad it can go back and forth.

maybe he was legitimately hoping the son would throw the paper away so as to not be tempted by it, and he couldn't see to do it himself. it's kind of like how i feel with my old concert t-shirts. i can't bring myself to get rid of them, but i know if i leave them out when we're cleaning the day we're getting rid of our clothes for goodwill, my wife will do it for me.

i think one of the biggest holes in the narrative was the failure to account for julie and will never saying anything to their dad about whom they had been meeting in the woods (watts and isabel).

I feel like that can be explained away (why tell your drunk dad that you have secret meetings with a rich lady who gives you all kinds of cool toys if he's going to put the kibosh on it?), and I don't really mind that it was left hanging. Similar to Amelia's death--sometimes people just die, and sometimes kids just keep secrets.

Simple Torture wrote:I feel like that can be explained away (why tell your drunk dad that you have secret meetings with a rich lady who gives you all kinds of cool toys if he's going to put the kibosh on it?), and I don't really mind that it was left hanging. Similar to Amelia's death--sometimes people just die, and sometimes kids just keep secrets.

but if it was just weird enough that lucy made will go with julie to make sure nothing happened to her, i would have assumed at the least that will, being the responsible one, would have at least made mention of the fact.

"hey dad, how's the car repair coming? by the way, totally legit and all, and our drunk mom who's always gone arranged this awhile back, but we've been going to the woods to play with some random lady and a black dude with a white eye that's scary looking as fuck. whelp, see you later."

I’ll probably get slaughtered for this, but I thought this season was boring. Did finish it though.

Anders wrote:I’ll probably get slaughtered for this, but I thought this season was boring. Did finish it though.

Are you thinking of True Blood?

Simple Torture wrote:

Anders wrote:I’ll probably get slaughtered for this, but I thought this season was boring. Did finish it though.

Are you thinking of True Blood?

Never seen.

The constant jumping between three timelines, the unbearably slow murder case, the uninspiring conclusion, all the negativity...

I did enjoy the acting.

Anders wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

Anders wrote:I’ll probably get slaughtered for this, but I thought this season was boring. Did finish it though.

Are you thinking of True Blood?

Never seen.

I was just joshing you, man: http://forums.theskyiscrape.com/viewtop ... 7#p1295227

Simple Torture wrote:

Anders wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

Anders wrote:I’ll probably get slaughtered for this, but I thought this season was boring. Did finish it though.

Are you thinking of True Blood?

Never seen.

I was just joshing you, man: http://forums.theskyiscrape.com/viewtop ... 7#p1295227

Haha, yes, that was hilarious.

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:There were a couple of tantalizing ambiguities / small twists in the finale that I really did like. Spoilers, obviously:

--Did Wayne ever remember why he was in Greenland, or did he ever really forget? I think there are plenty of ways to read the glances between the characters, and some involve him recognizing Julie for just a moment and some are him really, really not knowing.

I go back and forth on this. I think he feigned forgetting. Even though this case been with him for his life and essentially made his life, he may have come to the conclusion that breaking the case and bringing closure to him was not as important as this poor lady getting to lead the rest of her life in anonymity and safely.

Certainly not a bad read. But then why give Henry the slip of paper? Why not just say, "I don't know why I was out there, I don't even know where Greenland is..." I'm not knocking your theory or the show for this--Im glad it can go back and forth.

maybe he was legitimately hoping the son would throw the paper away so as to not be tempted by it, and he couldn't see to do it himself. it's kind of like how i feel with my old concert t-shirts. i can't bring myself to get rid of them, but i know if i leave them out when we're cleaning the day we're getting rid of our clothes for goodwill, my wife will do it for me.

I saw it as more generally an idea that his son is potentially going to take on the same burden his father had; in the conversation at the beginning of the episode, Hays told his wife that the case was intertwined with their marriage and family, and I saw him not throwing away the address as a sign that that's going to continue. Kind of a bleak ending for the son.

That said, I don't believe Hays remembered what he was doing at the house when he gave the address to him; there is a pause during the conversation where, after looking at the girl, Hays seems to remember (or remember something). I don't know whether it's the whole story or something vague, but he seems to at least know the reason he's there. But he either forgets it or maybe (more interestingly) makes the decision not to act on it, knowing it'll disappear soon.

But overall, barring some annoying narrative choices (the monologue which was mentioned, and the book falling on the floor to just the right paragraph), I liked this a lot. The ending scene, with the Vietnam jungle acting as a metaphor for his dementia, was haunting. I know Pizzalatto has said again and again that the show is about the characters, not the crime, but this is the first season where that's actually felt true. I wouldn't say it's better than season one, but it did some things better. I also don't know who else on TV writes a wider gulf of really great and really bad dialogue than this guy.

about the last scene:

Spoiler: show

pure and deep dementia?

Hayes legit forgot why he went, the son saved it as he realized how important it must have been to his dad and that was dad was a brilliant detective so it must mean something.