Red Mosquito

Peeps wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

Peeps wrote:maybe lucic shouldnt run miller then if you dont want one of your players to get run. it would have been nice to see scott destroy lucic but it wasnt meant to happen

Ohhh, I didn't realize Scott was just throwing a late elbow to the head to get revenge for a hit that happened two years ago. Nevermind, then. No suspension.

i dont think i said anything that gave him a free pass as far as a suspension for the hit. i just said dont want your players to get cheapshotted then maybe you shouldnt cheap shot other players

Lucic and Miller have nothing to do with what happened last night. Nothing. Lucic on Miller happened two years ago when Scott and Eriksson were both on different teams. It was a stupid hit that had nothing at all to do with any past bad blood between the teams.

surfndestroy wrote:Phil - Who do you think the better option in the Leafs net is? I like Bernier for his rebound control. I think Toronto has to tighten up in their own zone to make the next step and that's a lot easier with a goalie with better rebound control.

I'm comfortable with not settling on a #1 until someone completely runs away with the job. I like the idea that they split time for now and slowly give more starts to whoever's playing better. The rebounds concern me, but Reimer's proven that he can be a very good goalie in spite of them. I've never understood why people seem to think a 2.50 GAA from Reimer is somehow inferior to a 2.50 GAA from another goalie because Reimer allows too many rebounds. Rebounds may be preventing him from taking the next step, but they don't make his current accomplishments any less impressive.

I completely agree that they need to tighten things up. I think the Leafs defense does a decent job of cutting down on really good scoring chances, but the shots totals they face make me nervous. The second half of the Anaheim game was a step in the right direction as far as tightening things up.

philpritchard wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:Phil - Who do you think the better option in the Leafs net is? I like Bernier for his rebound control. I think Toronto has to tighten up in their own zone to make the next step and that's a lot easier with a goalie with better rebound control.

I'm comfortable with not settling on a #1 until someone completely runs away with the job. I like the idea that they split time for now and slowly give more starts to whoever's playing better. The rebounds concern me, but Reimer's proven that he can be a very good goalie in spite of them. I've never understood why people seem to think a 2.50 GAA from Reimer is somehow inferior to a 2.50 GAA from another goalie because Reimer allows too many rebounds. Rebounds may be preventing him from taking the next step, but they don't make his current accomplishments any less impressive.

I completely agree that they need to tighten things up. I think the Leafs defense does a decent job of cutting down on really good scoring chances, but the shots totals they face make me nervous. The second half of the Anaheim game was a step in the right direction as far as tightening things up.

Goalies that lack rebound control make me nearvous. You tend to see the defence get a bit scrambly in front of them when the pressure is on as they feel there's too much oce to cover. I think if Toronto could adopt a system like Colorado is using they'd be miles ahead.

philpritchard wrote:

MattA75 wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

MattA75 wrote:Matt Cooke rightfully got all sort of flack, but the thing about Cooke was, was that when he didn't do all the dirty shit, he could still be a productive player with a role outside of hurting people and playing dirty

John Scott has no such skill

but as much as I hate Scott, I think the Buffalo coach is actually a bigger dink

I understand the role players like John Scott fill, but I think the punishment should be a lot harsher when it's a player like him taking out an important player like Eriksson. If a player plays 5 minutes a night and throws dirty hits like that, there should be repercussions for the coach/team as well.

I mean I get it, but Scott can do nothing else on the ice...even guys like Kocur and Probert 25 years ago could at least play...I don't know if there's ever been an enforcer as inept at everything else as Scott

That's the way a lot of goons are now, though maybe not quite to that extreme. I would have said the same about Colton Orr prior to the lockout, but over the last year or so he's turned into a guy who can play 8-10 minutes when needed and not hurt the team. I wouldn't say the same about Scott.

Scott was actually playing a good game against Boston before the hit, though. Didn't score any goals, but he was moving the puck and was effective in the offensive zone as much as you could expect him to be, maybe even more so. The hit was dirty and he should get a few games, but here's the thing: he hasn't been suspended before nor am I aware of him having a reputation for dirty hits. He is known for fighting people, that's it.

Not really sure why a players skill is even a discussion point here. Does it make it okay that Shane Doan has delivered head shots only because he scores goals? It doesn't: head shots are head shots. As long as fighting is in the league, players like John Scott will continue to exist.

Bonus comment: Andrew Peters was the most inept enforcer I've ever seen in the other aspects of the game.

Mecca wrote:Scott was actually playing a good game against Boston before the hit, though. Didn't score any goals, but he was moving the puck and was effective in the offensive zone as much as you could expect him to be, maybe even more so. The hit was dirty and he should get a few games, but here's the thing: he hasn't been suspended before nor am I aware of him having a reputation for dirty hits. He is known for fighting people, that's it.

Not really sure why a players skill is even a discussion point here. Does it make it okay that Shane Doan has delivered head shots only because he scores goals? It doesn't: head shots are head shots. As long as fighting is in the league, players like John Scott will continue to exist.

Bonus comment: Andrew Peters was the most inept enforcer I've ever seen in the other aspects of the game.

I think trying to fight Kessel will count against him in at least a minor way... deserved or not, he's developing a reputation for going after the other team's top players.

That's part of the reason that it is different for players like Scott and Orr to go after someone, compared to Doan or Ovechkin. If Scott goes out and headhunts someone, he can cause a serious injury with little to no impact on the Sabres. The punishment to Scott could be severe, but the team loses little by not having him in the lineup. Scott sits out a few games and everyone moves on. If Doan or Ovechkin miss a few games, it can have a huge impact on his team. I think that's always been the argument when goons make dirty plays.

yet ovie (havent watched enough to know for sure) always trys to make the big hits to knock another player out. so if ovie gets crunched i wont lose an ounce of sleep over it. what comes around goes around

Mecca wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

MattA75 wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

MattA75 wrote:Matt Cooke rightfully got all sort of flack, but the thing about Cooke was, was that when he didn't do all the dirty shit, he could still be a productive player with a role outside of hurting people and playing dirty

John Scott has no such skill

but as much as I hate Scott, I think the Buffalo coach is actually a bigger dink

I understand the role players like John Scott fill, but I think the punishment should be a lot harsher when it's a player like him taking out an important player like Eriksson. If a player plays 5 minutes a night and throws dirty hits like that, there should be repercussions for the coach/team as well.

I mean I get it, but Scott can do nothing else on the ice...even guys like Kocur and Probert 25 years ago could at least play...I don't know if there's ever been an enforcer as inept at everything else as Scott

That's the way a lot of goons are now, though maybe not quite to that extreme. I would have said the same about Colton Orr prior to the lockout, but over the last year or so he's turned into a guy who can play 8-10 minutes when needed and not hurt the team. I wouldn't say the same about Scott.

Scott was actually playing a good game against Boston before the hit, though. Didn't score any goals, but he was moving the puck and was effective in the offensive zone as much as you could expect him to be, maybe even more so. The hit was dirty and he should get a few games, but here's the thing: he hasn't been suspended before nor am I aware of him having a reputation for dirty hits. He is known for fighting people, that's it.

Not really sure why a players skill is even a discussion point here. Does it make it okay that Shane Doan has delivered head shots only because he scores goals? It doesn't: head shots are head shots. As long as fighting is in the league, players like John Scott will continue to exist.

Bonus comment: Andrew Peters was the most inept enforcer I've ever seen in the other aspects of the game.

why wouldn't a players skill be a discussion point? It's all John Scott can do (fight and hurt people). He's a completely inept hockey player otherwise. It's no different from the argument of "hey, why doesn't <insert 30 goal power forward here> fight <insert goon here>? I guess he's just a pussy." No, he's not a pussy, he knows it'd be completely stupid to take himself off the ice for 5 minutes while the other team loses virtually nothing.

I don't have any problem with fighting (you will not find a bigger proponent of it in fact), and I don't have a problem with enforcers. But the enforcer who literally can't play or do anything else? It amazes me there's still teams that will use a roster spot for that. Then again, when you're Buffalo, your team sucks anyway, so what difference does it make I guess.

And I just looked up Andrew Peters...he still scored 4X the goals Scott has

Peeps wrote:yet ovie (havent watched enough to know for sure) always trys to make the big hits to knock another player out. so if ovie gets crunched i wont lose an ounce of sleep over it. what comes around goes around

I don't know if Ovechkin actively headhunts...he actively looks to blow people up, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're headhunting. But Ovechkin has definitely laid out some questionable, and some not so questionable, hits.

But as Phil said, if Ovechkin lays out a headshot and gets 5 games, that's a lot more damaging to Washington than losing John Scott is to Buffalo

who fought scott after the hit? i had no idea the bruins also practiced judo, what a throw!

philpritchard wrote:That's part of the reason that it is different for players like Scott and Orr to go after someone, compared to Doan or Ovechkin. If Scott goes out and headhunts someone, he can cause a serious injury with little to no impact on the Sabres. The punishment to Scott could be severe, but the team loses little by not having him in the lineup. Scott sits out a few games and everyone moves on. If Doan or Ovechkin miss a few games, it can have a huge impact on his team. I think that's always been the argument when goons make dirty plays.

It shouldn't be different though. A dirty hit is dirty hit, it shouldn't matter who made it. It also shouldn't matter whether the guy was injured but that's another story. It gives guys that can "play" a license to go out and play dirty because they know at best they'll get a slap on the wrist. If anyone other than Scott or Ott had hit Eriksson I doubt people would still be talking about it, they wouldn't be calling for Rolston to be fired and all of the other ridiculous crap that is being spewed by the media. And while I agree that the role that Scott plays is being phased out by guys that can play, I think it's hysterical that the media pretends like every team didn't have 1-2 guys like Scott on their roster in the 70s, 80s and early 90s.

As far as talentless goons go, Joel Rechlicz and Trevor Gillies come to mind. Gillie had to have some talent at some point though as he was a 2nd round pick in the OHL draft.

On a side note, it was a brutal week for my fantasy team. I lost Ward, Rinne, Pacioretty, Visnovsky and Eriksson. I was able to pick up Bernier off waivers last week, so now I'm riding him and Fleury.

philpritchard wrote:

Mecca wrote:Scott was actually playing a good game against Boston before the hit, though. Didn't score any goals, but he was moving the puck and was effective in the offensive zone as much as you could expect him to be, maybe even more so. The hit was dirty and he should get a few games, but here's the thing: he hasn't been suspended before nor am I aware of him having a reputation for dirty hits. He is known for fighting people, that's it.

Not really sure why a players skill is even a discussion point here. Does it make it okay that Shane Doan has delivered head shots only because he scores goals? It doesn't: head shots are head shots. As long as fighting is in the league, players like John Scott will continue to exist.

Bonus comment: Andrew Peters was the most inept enforcer I've ever seen in the other aspects of the game.

I think trying to fight Kessel will count against him in at least a minor way... deserved or not, he's developing a reputation for going after the other team's top players.

That's part of the reason that it is different for players like Scott and Orr to go after someone, compared to Doan or Ovechkin. If Scott goes out and headhunts someone, he can cause a serious injury with little to no impact on the Sabres. The punishment to Scott could be severe, but the team loses little by not having him in the lineup. Scott sits out a few games and everyone moves on. If Doan or Ovechkin miss a few games, it can have a huge impact on his team. I think that's always been the argument when goons make dirty plays.

That's a fair point about the impact on a team, but dirty is dirty regardless of scoring skill.

It just occurred to me that Andrew Peters is the one who did the golf shot thing against the Leafs, isn't he? Hate that guy!

Speaking of suspensions, David Clarkson plays for the Leafs tonight. The investment... uh, well it hasn't been particularly good so far. Either way, it's exciting to add a player like him to a team that's started the season 7-3. A healthy Clarkson and Kulemin gives the Leafs one of the best sets of wingers in the league.

I have been following as much of the Avs turnaround as possible and I am just completely impressed. They are everything the Oilers should be. Yes, the Avs are getting great goaltending but the do such a great job limiting chances and almost never get scrambling in their own end. Only ten games in but I think Roy's tantrum in the first game was pure genius. He set the tone as far as passion required and sticking up for teammates. Bruins fan saying this but they are the most entertaining team to watch at the moment. They use their speed on every shift and execute beyond what you think they should be able to.

If he's not on Team Canada, then someone should be fired. He's turning into a superstar.

Avs are fun to watch, for sure. Erik Johnson looks as good as he ever has, which has gone unnoticed. The reason why Edmonton's rebuild is a mess is because their top picks don't care about defense. Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly, MacKinnon, those guys work hard defensively.

Patrick Roy is an intelligent coach. I listen to every one of his press conferences and radio interviews because the guy has so much knowledge about the game. I could listen to him talk hockey all day.

with reimer (sp) playing the way he did tonight the pens had no chance.

not happy with the fight because of the hit to scuderi. from what i saw it was by no means a cheap or dirty hit in the least

Vanek to the Isles for Moulson, a 2014 1st round and 2015 2nd round. Miller probably comes next.

that's a steal for the Sabres

MattA75 wrote:that's a steal for the Sabres

Not really, Vanek is a borderline elite player, Moulson is very good player, who doesn't produce when he's not playing with Tavares. Moulson has been terrible this year too up until the last 3-4 games. The first round pick will be a mid-round in what is expected to be not a very deep draft. The Islanders need to get a top 4 defenseman.

shinkdew wrote:

MattA75 wrote:that's a steal for the Sabres

Not really, Vanek is a borderline elite player, Moulson is very good player, who doesn't produce when he's not playing with Tavares. Moulson has been terrible this year too up until the last 3-4 games. The first round pick will be a mid-round in what is expected to be not a very deep draft. The Islanders need to get a top 4 defenseman.

Vanek and Moulson are, statistically, very similar over the past few years, and both are UFA at the end of the year...I just don't buy that the upgrade from Moulson to Vanek is worth a first round pick and a second round pick

scrub12 wrote:If he's not on Team Canada, then someone should be fired. He's turning into a superstar.

I would probably find a way to get him on the team because I agree that he's moving into the next tier of players, but have you seen the list of centers he's up against? He would almost have to play on the wing, and even then it's a pretty ridiculous competition, especially with all the other centers moving to the wing.

I still think he'll make it, though.