Re: The 47th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

[Rangi Guy]

More than 50 years ago, Congress outlawed such discrimination against immigrants based on national origin.

Sounds like a pretty foolish law.

RE: Why I say Trump's first week has been impressive: he's, more or less, immediately begun putting into action the things he said he would do. For all the criticism of politicians not following through on their campaign promises, it's quite odd to see that dynamic inverted with Trump. The stuff about crowd size etc is just a sideshow, I don't know if even he takes it seriously. His meeting with Theresa May seems to have gone very well.

I was thinking the same thing earlier today. The whole campaign he said that he'd do these things. He didn't mince his words at all over any of this - and he got elected. Now people are upset that he's actually following through?

We were upset about the promises too

And yet he still got voted in.

[Kaius]

There's a lot of stupid people here.

[BurtReynolds]

More than 50 years ago, Congress outlawed such discrimination against immigrants based on national origin.

Sounds like a pretty foolish law.

RE: Why I say Trump's first week has been impressive: he's, more or less, immediately begun putting into action the things he said he would do. For all the criticism of politicians not following through on their campaign promises, it's quite odd to see that dynamic inverted with Trump. The stuff about crowd size etc is just a sideshow, I don't know if even he takes it seriously. His meeting with Theresa May seems to have gone very well.

I was thinking the same thing earlier today. The whole campaign he said that he'd do these things. He didn't mince his words at all over any of this - and he got elected. Now people are upset that he's actually following through?

Trump's an authoritarian to the point of possibly being a fascist, but I still balk at the Left's tactic of calling everyone a racist who wants border controls or most other conservative positions. Most of his actions to this point have been the typical conservative position for years (republican lies about implementing that position aside), and in fact much of it was the position of democrats until recently (unions had no love for free trade or weak borders). But now this same position means you are a nazi klansman.

Before, a conservative doing something conservative was considered conservative. Now it is considered nazism. All that's changed is the Left's attitude toward it and increasing impotence to fight it.

Of course, conservatives have been doing it to liberals just as long: All liberals are babykilling, america hating, Stalin-worshipers.

Hence all out race/civil war coming to America 2021. Buy your tickets now.

[BurtReynolds]

It is interesting though that the Nazis didn't come to power by lying about their positions. They did exactly what they said they were gonna do. But this kinda makes me balk when others declare every conservative a nazi . If they were, they would probably declare it proudly. It's kind of a fundamental aspect of being a nazi.

Edit: eh forget that last point. They are probably a little more tricksy about it these days.

[BurtReynolds]

Also, let's not forget - let's NOT forget, Dude - that keeping wildlife, an amphibious rodent, for uh, domestic, you know, within the city - that aint legal either.

[McParadigm]

Trump's border talk is nothing but thinly veiled racism. He is intentionally inciting hatred toward POC, particularly Hispanics. The narrative is palpable, and it isn't new.

Predictably, I don't buy it.

Are all actions by a country to exert control over its borders necessarily racist? The whole point of a border is to exclude, to discriminate.

He is publishing a weekly list of crimes committed by illegal immigrants. He referred to immigrants as rapists. He used the phrase "bad hombres." How much more transparently awful can he be? That is building a false and hateful narrative if I've ever seen it.

With respect to the first, I don't necessarily find anything objectionable about that - as I said when it was discussed earlier, I might do depending on the amount of detail provided (I'd hate to see people acting as vigilantes, etc.)

With respect to the second two, I don't think you can necessarily equate comments made during the campaign to policy decisions. I've said before I think Trump is vulgar, crass and personally unpleasant, those are two clear examples of just that.

Just as its possible to support strong immigration and border policies and not bear any ill-will towards immigrants, it's possible to find some of Trump's policies and positions appealing without finding anything to like in his personality or public statements.

There is a layer of understanding that seems to be lacking from your interpretation of all this, but that absense is very understandable.

The majority of American media glosses over this, and the ones that do address it tend to take a very smarmy approach, but you cannot understand what is happening here without understanding the popularity and rise of Steve Bannon. Without that...without real exposure to the dog whistle phrases, the lexicon of the movement, and the opportunity to sit among Breitbart-fed American citizens who feel that you are "safe" to open up to...you cannot understand any of this.

I shit on the Midwest a lot. I have a solid reason: it really sucks. I lived there for over 30 years. But I was raised in a community where some of the oldest people still spoke German as a first language. People who fought in WW2 and couldn't write home, ever, because their families never learned functional English. German letters home would be a problem. And I spent my summers going between Texas and Louisiana, where my dad's family was from. Scots, whose ancestors came over early and became wealthy slaveowners. Whose descendants openly wish that was still the way of things.

It's not a meme to say that these people believe that Israel "belongs" to the US right now, or that Hillary Clinton practices dark magic. It's not a joke. It's not just a way that they demonize their opponents. They believe it in the same way you believe that the earth is not the only body in space. It's that true.

These are people who, over time, have been cultivated into only accepting information from a specific source. They saw Rush Limbaugh's TV show in the 90's. Then they watched Fox. Then Fox pointed them towards Breitbart. And the confirmation bias exploded.

There are key phrases, or terminological absences, that these people identify on a variety of topics, and which act as silent communiques. They are now coming from the White House, and they all reek of Bannon.

The value of these things is that the group "gets" it, but the broader population either doesnt or can't grab anything solid. Between my wife and myself, we were awash with excited texts/emails/social media trash about the use of the word "innocents" instead of "Jewish people" in today's statement before the media even had a chance to latch on...because Bannon's people know that language. It's one of many ways that Trump's words and policies have melded to match Breitbart culture. And no small surprise, since we are increasingly hearing leaks from the White House claiming that Bannon and crew have dominated the chosing and writing of executive orders....and even cowrote (or wrote) the inaugural address (which was purely a restating of the worldview they have sold for years).

There is no interpretation of the events this last week that avoids the size, tenacity, or common language of that crowd, and is also accurate. None. The ability to be racist, nationalist, sexist, and speak of related goals without exposure is a primary appeal of this set. Donald Trump could make insane claims about crowd sizes, because the Breitbart crew BELIEVE IT. That's why I shared that research...because it demonstrated the scope of a dominating bias that is real and is being beaconed to, every day.

You can argue that strong borders are good, and I'll listen. I happen to think that much stronger borders mixed with less stringent immigration policies would be a good thing. But it is unavoidably fallacitic to propose that racial constructs are not right at the core of why these things are being pushed, and how they are being communicated to the base. Whether you agree with some of the policies or not, rationales and goals are being communicated here that your words do not imply recognition of.

This is also why the women's march was so important, and why more and more visible, unfiltered, social and media response is important. A worldview has claimed power here that is truly a minority, but has been tightly contained for so long...been so convinced of its dominance and prevalence...that it can't even interpret pictures of crowd sizes.

That it will believe an old woman who lives in the public eye is part of a pedophile rape ring operating out of a pizza parlor.

For real.

If you speculate on who Trump really is, but ignore his perfection of the language of that crowd, then you've already missed the boat....because you are not understanding the reasons for his actions, and therefore are not understanding what their natural conclusions may end up being.

[McParadigm]

tl;dr version: can I move in with you spenno I want out

[BurtReynolds]

I shit on the Midwest a lot. I have a solid reason: it really sucks. I lived there for over 30 years. But I was raised in a community where some of the oldest people still spoke German as a first language. People who fought in WW2 and couldn't write home, ever, because their families never learned functional English. German letters home would be a problem. And I spent my summers going between Texas and Louisiana, where my dad's family was from. Scots, whose ancestors came over early and became wealthy slaveowners. Whose descendants openly wish that was still the way of things.

It's not a meme to say that these people believe that Israel "belongs" to the US right now, or that Hillary Clinton practices dark magic. It's not a joke. It's not just a way that they demonize their opponents. They believe it in the same way you believe that the earth is not the only body in space. It's that true.

Don't listen to him, Spenno. I grew up in the deepest, darkest south, and can tell you that this is mostly bullshit.

[BurtReynolds]

but I ain't moving back there.

[BurtReynolds]

There are key phrases, or terminological absences, that these people identify on a variety of topics, and which act as silent communiques.

That is the hysteria talking.

More "coded" language. *wink**wink* Get educated!



Quick, attack them!


Is it any wonder these people are convinced they are surrounded by nazis?

anarcho-capitalist? nazi.
MRA? nazi.
oppose safe spaces? nazi.
Make America Great Again hat? nazi.
nazi. nazi. nazi.
EVERYONE THEY DISAGREE WITH IS A NAZI

*Also these secret nazis think Clinton is a literal witch.

[BurtReynolds]

Of course, the main purpose of this kind of paranoid bullshit is not to warn people about evil nazis in their midst, but rather to associate their enemies with white power movements in the minds of civilians. It's purposeful. But besides the fact that it is immensely fucking evil and anti-liberal, it also doesn't work anymore. As a tactic it fails to help that cause. In fact, it hurts it. This is the primary reason democrats are losing the election, and this ridiculous tragedy plays itself out over and over again.

How to lose elections, a Democratic handbook for failure:
1. Misunderstand something. (see poor Pepe)
2. Declare it and anything remotely associated with it racist/nazi.
3. Everyone mildly associated with that thing justifiably feels attacked and concludes these illiberal leftists are delusional. Actual racists laugh and thank the Left for muddying the waters and normalising them.
4. Lose election.

Repeat into oblivion. The beatings will continue until morale improves!

[LoathedVermin72]

[BurtReynolds]

Can someone explain the constitutionality of executive orders? I don't get that.

[BurtReynolds]

I guess when politicians regard the constitution as toilet paper...

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[Dscans]

Goddamnit. Burt's right.

[Strat]

More than 50 years ago, Congress outlawed such discrimination against immigrants based on national origin.

Sounds like a pretty foolish law.

RE: Why I say Trump's first week has been impressive: he's, more or less, immediately begun putting into action the things he said he would do. For all the criticism of politicians not following through on their campaign promises, it's quite odd to see that dynamic inverted with Trump. The stuff about crowd size etc is just a sideshow, I don't know if even he takes it seriously. His meeting with Theresa May seems to have gone very well.

I was thinking the same thing earlier today. The whole campaign he said that he'd do these things. He didn't mince his words at all over any of this - and he got elected. Now people are upset that he's actually following through?

The people who didnt vote for him, yes.

The thing is, our border is pretty dam!n secure. Yes there are some issues with Mexico. The problem is not illegal immigrants. We have just as big of a problem with American born citizens! And Trump has created a narrative that we dont vet anybody coming from overseas - refugees, etc. Which is just not the case. He has people believing that terrorists just walk right into our country and are waiting to blow us up. This isn't based onf act. Little of his immigration stances are based on reality and fact, like most things Trump believes in.

Im not saying we shouldnt protect and be careful of who gets into the country, but we already do that. And yes people are already starting to act like vigilants

http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-su ... ker-548977

Trump isnt hitler for wanting to protect our borders, Trump absolutely has hitler like personality traits in that he has created fear within his base about immigrants (mexicans and muslims) based on lies.

[Orpheus]

That was a great post McP, it was absolutely not bullshit.

The immigration narrative Trump is pushing is wrong simply because it denies history. I live in Texas, which Trump would have you believe is some white haven that Mexicans pour into to ruin. But Texas *was* Mexico and these people have just been living in the same places and doing the same things for hundreds of years while the border moves around them and they move around it. Their culture is largely my culture and the culture of the state. The border is its own entity, basically its own state, and anyone who's from there can tell you that. Shit, reading Cormac McCarthy can tell you that.

Trump's narrative imagines Mexicans as interlopers and intruders in an economy and a culture that they largely helped to create. It lets awful whites eat in their restaurants and participate in their traditions while saying they're dirty rapists and criminals as soon as they turn their back. It lets them get rich off their labor while denying their basic humanity. It's a terrible lie and it is causing the destruction of social and cultural capital, and if the tariffs are passed, billions of dollars of actual, literal capital.

But hey, like the poster said, maybe white people will care about racism when they (can't) put avocado on it.

[epilogue]

I won't post in this thread often. But I will always return to read through the comments. And I will always say a silent prayer and an audible "thanks" for McParadigm. I've never been more happy that he's around.

Also, excellent post, Orpheus.

[digster]

Of course, the main purpose of this kind of paranoid bullshit is not to warn people about evil nazis in their midst, but rather to associate their enemies with white power movements in the minds of civilians. It's purposeful. But besides the fact that it is immensely fucking evil and anti-liberal, it also doesn't work anymore. As a tactic it fails to help that cause. In fact, it hurts it. This is the primary reason democrats are losing the election, and this ridiculous tragedy plays itself out over and over again.

Calling Trump's rhetoric out for what it is may lose Democrats every single election from here on out, but that has absolutely no bearing on whether or not something is true or not. Politicians may need to watch their step, but not everyone.