Red Mosquito

durdencommatyler wrote:I really enjoyed A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius.

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I really enjoyed A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius.

It's ok. You and about 10 million other people enjoyed that book. But it was nails on chalkboard for me.

Why though? I'm not clear why it grated on you.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I really enjoyed A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius.

I really enjoyed it too. You Shall Know Our Velocity was fantastic as well.

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I really enjoyed A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius.

It's ok. You and about 10 million other people enjoyed that book. But it was nails on chalkboard for me.

Why though? I'm not clear why it grated on you.

I don't like when writers try to be overly clever, like they're so in love with their own thoughts. I really like the economy of words -- Stephen King, Cormac McCarthy, John Steinbeck are amongst my very favorites, and I find them to be economical (which is not to say they are sparse, necessarily). Dave Eggers -- at least in his first two books -- was anything but economical.

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I really enjoyed A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius.

It's ok. You and about 10 million other people enjoyed that book. But it was nails on chalkboard for me.

Why though? I'm not clear why it grated on you.

I don't like when writers try to be overly clever, like they're so in love with their own thoughts. I really like the economy of words -- Stephen King, Cormac McCarthy, John Steinbeck are amongst my very favorites, and I find them to be economical (which is not to say they are sparse, necessarily). Dave Eggers -- at least in his first two books -- was anything but economical.

Ah. I see.

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I really enjoyed A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius.

It's ok. You and about 10 million other people enjoyed that book. But it was nails on chalkboard for me.

Why though? I'm not clear why it grated on you.

I don't like when writers try to be overly clever, like they're so in love with their own thoughts. I really like the economy of words -- Stephen King, Cormac McCarthy, John Steinbeck are amongst my very favorites, and I find them to be economical (which is not to say they are sparse, necessarily). Dave Eggers -- at least in his first two books -- was anything but economical.

Ah. I see.

i had a similar reaction...i think overly clever can work (everything is illuminated for example), but i felt it was a distraction in this

durdencommatyler wrote:

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I really enjoyed A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius.

It's ok. You and about 10 million other people enjoyed that book. But it was nails on chalkboard for me.

Why though? I'm not clear why it grated on you.

I don't like when writers try to be overly clever, like they're so in love with their own thoughts. I really like the economy of words -- Stephen King, Cormac McCarthy, John Steinbeck are amongst my very favorites, and I find them to be economical (which is not to say they are sparse, necessarily). Dave Eggers -- at least in his first two books -- was anything but economical.

Ah. I see.

i had a similar reaction...i think overly clever can work (everything is illuminated for example), but i felt it was a distraction in this

Interesting. I obviously didn't have that reaction but I understand how someone would/could. To me the thing just felt so honest and earnest and, yes clever, but not in a gimmicky way. It just felt like a guy finding a voice but if anything, the fault of the thing was that it was too heart on sleeve. But I dig that, obviously.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

tragabigzanda wrote:Yea, Lenny and I had the same reaction. And it's a big part of my problem with Connor Oberst, come to think of it.

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I really enjoyed A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius.

It's ok. You and about 10 million other people enjoyed that book. But it was nails on chalkboard for me.

Why though? I'm not clear why it grated on you.

I don't like when writers try to be overly clever, like they're so in love with their own thoughts. I really like the economy of words -- Stephen King, Cormac McCarthy, John Steinbeck are amongst my very favorites, and I find them to be economical (which is not to say they are sparse, necessarily). Dave Eggers -- at least in his first two books -- was anything but economical.

The Argonaut wrote:I love Dave Eggers. AHWOSG was the first I read and it's great. Zeiroun was stupendous and made me cry. One section of his newest book, Heroes of the Frontier, made me really happy and made me laugh really hard while I was reading it one night before bed. I went back and read the last few pages over again it was so good. I could've read more, but I wanted to enjoy that moment so I turned off the light and laid down. I was thinking about that section, and all of a sudden found myself crying! Just like that. Such a weird experience. I think he's great

Bob Loblaw wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I really enjoyed A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius.

It's ok. You and about 10 million other people enjoyed that book. But it was nails on chalkboard for me.

Why though? I'm not clear why it grated on you.

I don't like when writers try to be overly clever, like they're so in love with their own thoughts. I really like the economy of words -- Stephen King, Cormac McCarthy, John Steinbeck are amongst my very favorites, and I find them to be economical (which is not to say they are sparse, necessarily). Dave Eggers -- at least in his first two books -- was anything but economical.

There's more to writing than just economy of words, though, right? I'm not a diehard Eggers fan or anything, but I really enjoyed Velocity and Genius. I can see how his style may rub some the wrong way, but I think Eggers' schtick--at least in those two books--was more a means to an end than anything else. I genuinely think he was trying to write something funny and inspiring, not necessarily to come up with a work to be canonized and worshipped.

The Argonaut wrote:I love Dave Eggers. AHWOSG was the first I read and it's great. Zeiroun was stupendous and made me cry. One section of his newest book, Heroes of the Frontier, made me really happy and made me laugh really hard while I was reading it one night before bed. I went back and read the last few pages over again it was so good. I could've read more, but I wanted to enjoy that moment so I turned off the light and laid down. I was thinking about that section, and all of a sudden found myself crying! Just like that. Such a weird experience. I think he's great

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

The Argonaut wrote:I was intimidated by how smart all the Bolano fans were on the old board, so I've never read him.

tragabigzanda wrote:Bob -- Yea, of course there's more than economy of words. And I'm not even arguing that Eggers is a bad writer; just that I didn't like it. But there are writers who utilize other devices that I love: Toni Morrison's ability to convey emotion through description of place; Ken Kesey's ear for dialogue; McCarthy's ability to pepper a landscape with flora and fauna and make it feel vital to the story. But I'm a reformed long-winded creative type myself; I wrote lyrics just like Conner Oberst before I'd ever heard his music. But I think a lot of creative types tend to be egomaniacs, and it makes me angry. You have an obvious gift, now you have to show off about it? It's an oversimplification, but fairly accurate. There's hardly anything new in art. So learn the tools and utilize them efficiently to convey your unique outlook; showing off your skills for the sake of showing off is wasteful and banal. It's a utilitarian outlook, and I know it makes me sound like a jerk. And when I was producing music, I would take a far longer and gentler route to get the artist to pare down their ideas. But it's mostly how I view things...

And the only DFW I ever read was A Suposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again. I loved it, but I admit it was a very dense read. But my sense was that he wasn't showing off at all -- I think his brain was just enormous and very busy, and what he put on those pages was him struggling to get an onslaught of ideas into something coherent. But he shared thoughts with me I'd never seen before.

Lenny -- sorry, I've never heard of that author. What should I check out?