Re: The 47th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

[BurtReynolds]

so bizarre that executive orders can take effect immediately when everything including the lawsuits against them and legitimate lawmaking takes ages.

[Norah]

Maybe we shouldn't sign executive orders that abandon the people who risked their lives and the lives of their families to help United States soldiers fighting overseas.

[washing machine]

Reading McP's posts in this thread has me reconsidering every thought/opinion/post I've ever had/made. I used to think he was a pedantic bully who tried to make me feel bad by acting "holier-than-thou" and ripping others down to make himself feel smug and superior.

Now... I realize he was probably right. I'm the asshole. My opinions are terrible and the way I support them is vapid and clownish. McP is a goddamn national treasure and I need to shut up more often and listen.

Spoiler: show

There is absolutely zero snark/sarcasm in this post, btw. I'm dead serious.

Yeah he's totally made me realize that 85% of red state towns believe Hillary is a literal witch and that slavery should come back. He backs up every belief you have. What have you reconsidered?

Spoiler: show

There is a lot of snark in this post.

Late to the party here, but there's more truth to McP's post than you're letting on here, Burt. At least, that's been my experience. I grew up in a town called Sour Lake, Texas - a rural town just outside of the oil and chemical refinery dense port town of Beaumont, and also a stop for gas along the highway to Jasper if you're travelling north from Vidor. If the names of those towns don't ring a bell, you haven't been paying attention to hate crimes in the U.S. My family still lives in Sour Lake, and though I was lucky enough to grow up with tolerant and open-minded parents, living amongst casual racism and "America First" populism clouded my worldview to the extent that I really didn't fully get exposed to a broader worldview until I left for college.

Anyway, here's a few small anecdotes from some years in the early 00's in that part of Texas:

1. A new development outside of town was being built in 2003, called "Tallyrand Estates." While mingling with old family friends after church when I was visiting from college one weekend, talk turned to the new subdivision. General consensus among the church ladies and Knights of Columbus guys was that the houses looked nice, but that they really should change the name from something that sounds similar to "Taliban," especially since there was an "A-rab store" store near the entrance of the community.

2. Around the same time, a new HEB grocery store went up outside of another neighborhood in Beaumont. Everyone was excited that they'd get great prices on local food, and the store sold electronics too! A real boon for the economy. However, the storefront was painted a festive yellow, orange and blue. Homeowners nearby petitioned (and won) for HEB to change the colors of the storefront so as not to appear too ethnic (Hispanic.) After all, this was the West End...not South Park or College Street.

3. One Thanksgiving weekend, I brought a Turkish friend home because our dorms closed for the holidays and he had nowhere to go. We decided to go to a football game at my old high school and see old friends. He was ID'd at the gate by not one, but two people. One of which was a police officer on site.

Anyway, this stuff happens in America. It happens so often in fact that some of us have nearly grown numb to it. It's not an exaggeration, and it's become evident that the numbness or silence in regards to it has had the same effect as our media dropping the ball to hold Trump and Bannon accountable in any real way leading up to the election.

[BurtReynolds]

Maybe we shouldn't sign executive orders that abandon the people who risked their lives and the lives of their families to help United States soldiers fighting overseas.

but they denied that it targeted Muslims though so...

[Norah]

It doesn't ban Muslims it just bans terrorists. That's why Saudis can still come in no problem...

[BurtReynolds]

odds of a Trump tweet by the end of the day bragging about "0 terrorist attacks since it has gone into effect"?

[washing machine]

odds of a Trump tweet by the end of the day bragging about "0 terrorist attacks since it has gone into effect"?

Boy howdy, this ghost repellent I've been spraying around the house has really helped keep the spooks away.

[Norah]

odds of a Trump tweet by the end of the day bragging about "0 terrorist attacks since it has gone into effect"?

Meanwhile, this ghost repellent I've been spraying around the house has really helped keep the spooks away.

You weren't kidding about the casual racism.

[BurtReynolds]

oh lord

[washing machine]

I...I was trying to make a callback joke.

[Norah]

[Birds in Hell]

The thing is, our border is pretty dam!n secure. Yes there are some issues with Mexico. The problem is not illegal immigrants. We have just as big of a problem with American born citizens!

Of course, but the USA owes a much greater duty to an American-born piece of shit than a hard-working, honest guy who's just snuck across the border to make a better life.

It's as though the whole argument is predicated on the basis that the right thinks immigrants are bad people, when that isn't necessarily the case. Perhaps the language used suggests that in some respects, certainly not across the board, but I wonder why people get so hung about language; is there really a difference between a border control policy instituted by someone who demonises immigrants and one where they are charitable towards immigrants when they have the exact same effect?

Yes, language can drive culture in lots of ways, but that's not an argument against strong border policies - it's just an argument against that language, one I'd be inclined to agree with.

Sure. I also think he has biases that he defends by saying he grew up in a red state, and ignores the Left's biases. Then he presents himself as an authority on the subject to some crazy Australian monarchist.

I have to imagine that talking politics with someone who believes the vast majority of red staters believe in witches and slavery is roughly equivalent to talking politics with someone who believes in actual witches and slavery. Is it any wonder those same people believe the country is swarming with secret nazis who are getting orders via secret code from Steve Bannon?

I'm always interested in people's first-hand perspectives, though - naive as this may be - I find it hard to believe that McP's experience is universal. In my experience, most people simply don't care about the kind of stuff discussed on Fox News or have much interest in politics. They simply want to work, raise families, enjoy themselves, etc. and have no idea who Steve Bannon or Alex Jones are. Same with WM's post; if those are examples of casual prejudice (and we have plenty of that over here too), they strike me as particularly mild and, depending on circumstance, perhaps arguable.

And, as Burt has said, of those who are engaged with politics to some extent, people on the left are equally bad (to me, often worse) at jumping on anything that confirms their biases, no matter how flimsy and absurd it is - "LOOK AT WHAT THE ORANGE MONSTER HAS DONE NOW!" etc.

McP is a goddamn national treasure and I need to shut up more often and listen.

I've always enjoyed McP's posts but I fear this election has finally broken him.

[epilogue]

I've always enjoyed McP's posts but I fear this election has finally broken him.

He's one of only a few in this thread that's got it figured out, friend. You were someone I really admired. And I still like you. But it's clear that your politics and mine are completely different and dangerously so. If you support or defend anything this Frito-tinted monster as done, you are, frankly, not on my team. You are ignorant. You are wrong. YOU are broken. You are speaking out of turn. I wish you well, friend. But I will not engage with you further on this because you have proven to be ignorant, disgustingly apologetic, dangerously sympathetic, and off base in the extreme. There is no excuse for your defending this tyrant and his agenda. You are wrong. McP is one of the only a few making sense in this thread. Please do not expect me to reply on the matter further. And I understand that many will think I'm overstating and being reactionary and I respect that. Go ahead and hate/insult me. But if you have any empathy or sympathy or anything like that for this walking hatemonger you are not my ally. You are not my friend. You are delusional. And frankly, you are part of the problem.

[Wendy Carlos's Twin]

And, as Burt has said, of those who are engaged with politics to some extent, people on the left are equally bad (to me, often worse) at jumping on anything that confirms their biases, no matter how flimsy and absurd it is - "LOOK AT WHAT THE ORANGE MONSTER HAS DONE NOW!" etc.

You are confusing "bias" with legitimate observations and concerns. If you saw your country going down the same exact path as WWII Germany, and your new leader acting exactly like a textbook fascist, I doubt you would be all comfy and cozy about it. To blame liberals for "over-reacting" and thus digging their own grave is beyond stupid and naive.

[washing machine]

Wow. A harshly worded post towards Spenno is a true sign that this election has torn us apart and down is the new up. I hate this brave new world.

[Birds in Hell]

Go ahead and hate/insult me.

I'm disappointed that you think I would do this!

With respect to the rest of your post, suffice to say, I disagree. I think you're at risk of being dangerously myopic about this and I think it's always a worthwhile exercise to consider things from a different perspective. If I'm the problem, what of the millions of Americans (including women, POC, etc.) who voted for Trump? They're not all crazy racists - they're your neighbours, your colleagues, the people you walk past in the street, etc.

I can understand being disappointed in the results of the election but most of what I see from the left, calling everyone a Nazi or a white nationalist, the calls for resistance instead of greater understanding, seems designed to help Trump and increase the likelihood of his winning a second term.

[BurtReynolds]

Wow. A harshly worded post towards Spenno is a true sign that this election has torn us apart and down is the new up. I hate this brave new world.

I love this thread!

[epilogue]

And, as Burt has said, of those who are engaged with politics to some extent, people on the left are equally bad (to me, often worse) at jumping on anything that confirms their biases, no matter how flimsy and absurd it is - "LOOK AT WHAT THE ORANGE MONSTER HAS DONE NOW!" etc.

You are confusing "bias" with legitimate observations and concerns. If you saw your country going down the same exact path as WWII Germany, and your new leader acting exactly like a textbook fascist, I doubt you would be all comfy and cozy about it. To blame liberals for "over-reacting" and thus digging their own grave is beyond stupid and naive.

Make love to me!

[Norah]

What did Hitler have to do to go from someone that non-Nazi Germans simply disagreed with and had an obligation to oppose civilly, to someone so dangerous that he had to be fought violently and his supporters could no longer be tolerated and engaged with civilly?

I have this suspicion that whenever we realize the line has been crossed the next time it happens, it'll be far too late.

[wease]

I've always enjoyed McP's posts but I fear this election has finally broken him.

He's one of only a few in this thread that's got it figured out, friend. You were someone I really admired. And I still like you. But it's clear that your politics and mine are completely different and dangerously so. If you support or defend anything this Frito-tinted monster as done, you are, frankly, not on my team. You are ignorant. You are wrong. YOU are broken. You are speaking out of turn. I wish you well, friend. But I will not engage with you further on this because you have proven to be ignorant, disgustingly apologetic, dangerously sympathetic, and off base in the extreme. There is no excuse for your defending this tyrant and his agenda. You are wrong. McP is one of the only a few making sense in this thread. Please do not expect me to reply on the matter further. And I understand that many will think I'm overstating and being reactionary and I respect that. Go ahead and hate/insult me. But if you have any empathy or sympathy or anything like that for this walking hatemonger you are not my ally. You are not my friend. You are delusional. And frankly, you are part of the problem.

Other than you confusing Fritos with Cheetos, I agree totally.