Red Mosquito

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:Well, I don't disagree - it is cooler. The same formula becomes bland when that edge is taken off it. So yeah, it was a pretty hackneyed approach to songwriting to begin with, but the darkness made up for it. The drama of it, if you will. Where's the drama here? With all these lightning and wave metaphors and this girl as a flying space rock, what's actually happening? What's the story?

I was being sarcastic. It's cool when you're a teen or young adult maybe. After a while, listening to songs that paint dark pictures about everything from love, parent-child relationships, death, etc. can become more cumbersome than edgy. It depends a lot on what stage of life you're at. The band members are nearly 50 with the best years of their life behind them. I would think they don't want to brood over things anymore and probably want to celebrate or reflect on life in a more positive way. It would sound completely ridiculous if Ed wrote Black part two now, despite the fact that it is my favourite song of all time. A song does not have to be dramatic or dark to grab my attention. To me, LB is a song about cherishing a loved one and it's much more light hearted than something like Black. I prefer it vastly to many of the songs on Yield, which sort of reflect the same uplifting approach. This is all subjective of course, I know how much Yield is appreciated around these parts

Coach wrote:Dear Pearl Jam,

Please let Stone and Jeff write the songs for now on....my support for this request? See below:

1. "Once" Stone Gossard 3:51
2. "Even Flow" Gossard 4:53
3. "Alive" Gossard 5:40
4. "Why Go" Jeff Ament 3:19
5. "Black" Gossard 5:44
6. "Jeremy" Ament 5:18
7. "Oceans" Gossard, Ament, Vedder 2:41
8. "Porch" Vedder 3:30
9. "Garden" Gossard, Ament 4:59
10. "Deep" Gossard, Ament 4:18
11. "Release" Gossard, Ament, Dave Krusen, Mike McCready, Vedder 9:05

harmless wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:But it's just so much cooler when the songs are sad, dark and brooding. Can't they just get angry at something?

It's not that it's much cooler, it's whats established. To me, the themes in LB are just cheesy and NOT Pearl Jam. FD has kind of grown on me with more listens, and I can accept it for what it is. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, sounds like the kind of crap Bon Jovi would be singing about. That's not pearl jam (IMHO). Pearl Jam's themes in the past have been deeper and more serious.

I can't fathom why you'd be vehemently against LB but coming around to FD. Different strokes and all that. I don't think either of these songs are outside the realms of Bon Jovi, who has written a fair few cheesy love songs. And PJ have written several songs about girls and waves and surf boards.

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:But it's just so much cooler when the songs are sad, dark and brooding. Can't they just get angry at something?

It's not that it's much cooler, it's whats established. To me, the themes in LB are just cheesy and NOT Pearl Jam. FD has kind of grown on me with more listens, and I can accept it for what it is. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, sounds like the kind of crap Bon Jovi would be singing about. That's not pearl jam (IMHO). Pearl Jam's themes in the past have been deeper and more serious.

JimX6 wrote:

harmless wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:But it's just so much cooler when the songs are sad, dark and brooding. Can't they just get angry at something?

It's not that it's much cooler, it's whats established. To me, the themes in LB are just cheesy and NOT Pearl Jam. FD has kind of grown on me with more listens, and I can accept it for what it is. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, sounds like the kind of crap Bon Jovi would be singing about. That's not pearl jam (IMHO). Pearl Jam's themes in the past have been deeper and more serious.

I can't fathom why you'd be vehemently against LB but coming around to FD. Different strokes and all that. I don't think either of these songs are outside the realms of Bon Jovi, who has written a fair few cheesy love songs. And PJ have written several songs about girls and waves and surf boards.

I don't know. I suppose it IS different strokes. FD seems less forced, to me. It's a little more graceful (aside from the lame Fray-esque piano opening) . I still don't necessarily like FD, but I'd take that one out of the two. I Just can't stand the wishy washy rhymey lyrics in LB. I cringe every time. Thing is, if this song was a B-side I wouldn't be so disapointed. But it's the title track of this album..

Release_Me wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:But it's just so much cooler when the songs are sad, dark and brooding. Can't they just get angry at something?

It's not that it's much cooler, it's whats established. To me, the themes in LB are just cheesy and NOT Pearl Jam. FD has kind of grown on me with more listens, and I can accept it for what it is. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, sounds like the kind of crap Bon Jovi would be singing about. That's not pearl jam (IMHO). Pearl Jam's themes in the past have been deeper and more serious.

Maybe it's not the Pearl Jam you're holding on to?

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:Well, I don't disagree - it is cooler. The same formula becomes bland when that edge is taken off it. So yeah, it was a pretty hackneyed approach to songwriting to begin with, but the darkness made up for it. The drama of it, if you will. Where's the drama here? With all these lightning and wave metaphors and this girl as a flying space rock, what's actually happening? What's the story?

I was being sarcastic. It's cool when you're a teen or young adult maybe. After a while, listening to songs that paint dark pictures about everything from love, parent-child relationships, death, etc. can become more cumbersome than edgy. It depends a lot on what stage of life you're at. The band members are nearly 50 with the best years of their life behind them. I would think they don't want to brood over things anymore and probably want to celebrate or reflect on life in a more positive way. It would sound completely ridiculous if Ed wrote Black part two now, despite the fact that it is my favourite song of all time. A song does not have to be dramatic or dark to grab my attention. To me, LB is a song about cherishing a loved one and it's much more light hearted than something like Black. I prefer it vastly to many of the songs on Yield, which sort of reflect the same uplifting approach. This is all subjective of course, I know how much Yield is appreciated around these parts

I know you were being sarcastic, it was obvious. My response to you, in effect, was 'Yes, but it's not that simple.' There are other reasons why 'Why Go' is a much better song than Lightning Bolt.

Release_Me wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:But it's just so much cooler when the songs are sad, dark and brooding. Can't they just get angry at something?

It's not that it's much cooler, it's whats established. To me, the themes in LB are just cheesy and NOT Pearl Jam. FD has kind of grown on me with more listens, and I can accept it for what it is. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, sounds like the kind of crap Bon Jovi would be singing about. That's not pearl jam (IMHO). Pearl Jam's themes in the past have been deeper and more serious.

Maybe it's not the Pearl Jam you're holding on to?

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:But it's just so much cooler when the songs are sad, dark and brooding. Can't they just get angry at something?

It's not that it's much cooler, it's whats established. To me, the themes in LB are just cheesy and NOT Pearl Jam. FD has kind of grown on me with more listens, and I can accept it for what it is. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, sounds like the kind of crap Bon Jovi would be singing about. That's not pearl jam (IMHO). Pearl Jam's themes in the past have been deeper and more serious.

Maybe it's not the Pearl Jam you're holding on to?

I think any one of us could adjust to highly creative material that didn't necessarily agree with our notion of PJ. The problem is that this stuff isn't highly creative. So unless you're OK with that, there's not much to see here.

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:Well, I don't disagree - it is cooler. The same formula becomes bland when that edge is taken off it. So yeah, it was a pretty hackneyed approach to songwriting to begin with, but the darkness made up for it. The drama of it, if you will. Where's the drama here? With all these lightning and wave metaphors and this girl as a flying space rock, what's actually happening? What's the story?

I was being sarcastic. It's cool when you're a teen or young adult maybe. After a while, listening to songs that paint dark pictures about everything from love, parent-child relationships, death, etc. can become more cumbersome than edgy. It depends a lot on what stage of life you're at. The band members are nearly 50 with the best years of their life behind them. I would think they don't want to brood over things anymore and probably want to celebrate or reflect on life in a more positive way. It would sound completely ridiculous if Ed wrote Black part two now, despite the fact that it is my favourite song of all time. A song does not have to be dramatic or dark to grab my attention. To me, LB is a song about cherishing a loved one and it's much more light hearted than something like Black. I prefer it vastly to many of the songs on Yield, which sort of reflect the same uplifting approach. This is all subjective of course, I know how much Yield is appreciated around these parts

I know you were being sarcastic, it was obvious. My response to you, in effect, was 'Yes, but it's not that simple.' There are other reasons why 'Why Go' is a much better song than Lightning Bolt.

To you, Why Go maybe a better song. To me, it's the weakest on that outstanding album along with Deep. I really don't see any need to compare LB to Why Go. I'd rather compare it to something similar from Yield. I honestly don't think it does badly against most of those songs. It's like the made a poppier album (Backspacer) and everybody expected them to turn around and do a Vitalogy all of a sudden. I think Backspacer marked a clear shift in mood and I don't expect that to change. There might be some social commentary, some contemplation, etc. but overall, the band's albums should be expected to reflect themes important to them at this stage of their lives. That doesn't mean more mature themes, it means themes that 20-30 year olds might not identify with as much.

harmless wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

harmless wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:But it's just so much cooler when the songs are sad, dark and brooding. Can't they just get angry at something?

It's not that it's much cooler, it's whats established. To me, the themes in LB are just cheesy and NOT Pearl Jam. FD has kind of grown on me with more listens, and I can accept it for what it is. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, sounds like the kind of crap Bon Jovi would be singing about. That's not pearl jam (IMHO). Pearl Jam's themes in the past have been deeper and more serious.

I can't fathom why you'd be vehemently against LB but coming around to FD. Different strokes and all that. I don't think either of these songs are outside the realms of Bon Jovi, who has written a fair few cheesy love songs. And PJ have written several songs about girls and waves and surf boards.

I don't know. I suppose it IS different strokes. FD seems less forced, to me. It's a little more graceful (aside from the lame Fray-esque piano opening) . I still don't necessarily like FD, but I'd take that one out of the two. I Just can't stand the wishy washy rhymey lyrics in LB. I cringe every time. Thing is, if this song was a B-side I wouldn't be so disapointed. But it's the title track of this album..

Yeah, I'm kind of worried that it's the title track and I'm worried that they've debuted these songs first because they really are the best things on it. But, I don't think cheesy rhyming lyrics are the problem. When have they not had cheesy rhyming lyrics? All of their albums have them.

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:But it's just so much cooler when the songs are sad, dark and brooding. Can't they just get angry at something?

It's not that it's much cooler, it's whats established. To me, the themes in LB are just cheesy and NOT Pearl Jam. FD has kind of grown on me with more listens, and I can accept it for what it is. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, sounds like the kind of crap Bon Jovi would be singing about. That's not pearl jam (IMHO). Pearl Jam's themes in the past have been deeper and more serious.

Maybe it's not the Pearl Jam you're holding on to?

I think any one of us could adjust to highly creative material that didn't necessarily agree with our notion of PJ. The problem is that this stuff isn't highly creative. So unless you're OK with that, there's not much to see here.

I don't think PJ was ever a very creative band. If anything, they are highly derivate of their influences which of course have changed over the years. They did experiment somewhat on occasions but they are a pretty straightforward rock band who are just extremely good at what they do. Expecting something highly creative 20+ years into their career when they haven't shown a huge penchant for it in previous years is unrealistic to me. This is probably where you would disagree with me and point to the No Code-Riot Act era as being creatively sublime. I just don't hear it.

VinylGuy wrote:so are we already bitching about the album?

RIP PEARL JAM!!!!!

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:But it's just so much cooler when the songs are sad, dark and brooding. Can't they just get angry at something?

It's not that it's much cooler, it's whats established. To me, the themes in LB are just cheesy and NOT Pearl Jam. FD has kind of grown on me with more listens, and I can accept it for what it is. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, sounds like the kind of crap Bon Jovi would be singing about. That's not pearl jam (IMHO). Pearl Jam's themes in the past have been deeper and more serious.

Maybe it's not the Pearl Jam you're holding on to?

I think any one of us could adjust to highly creative material that didn't necessarily agree with our notion of PJ. The problem is that this stuff isn't highly creative. So unless you're OK with that, there's not much to see here.

I don't think PJ was ever a very creative band. If anything, they are highly derivate of their influences which of course have changed over the years. They did experiment somewhat on occasions but they are a pretty straightforward rock band who are just extremely good at what they do. Expecting something highly creative 20+ years into their career when they haven't shown a huge penchant for it in previous years is unrealistic to me. This is probably where you would disagree with me and point to the No Code-Riot Act era as being creatively sublime. I just don't hear it.

Whilst I'm sympathetic with this argument and agree with it to an extent, PJ were not a dumb rock band. Bon Jovi was. PJ was not a dumb rock band when they made Vitalogy, No Code, Yield, Binaural or Riot Act. There is interest and creativity in all of these albums. I'm not asking for avant-garde innovation. I'm not really asking for anything. I'm just wondering what made them start wanting to write less substantial, more free-and-easy songs.

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:But it's just so much cooler when the songs are sad, dark and brooding. Can't they just get angry at something?

It's not that it's much cooler, it's whats established. To me, the themes in LB are just cheesy and NOT Pearl Jam. FD has kind of grown on me with more listens, and I can accept it for what it is. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, sounds like the kind of crap Bon Jovi would be singing about. That's not pearl jam (IMHO). Pearl Jam's themes in the past have been deeper and more serious.

Maybe it's not the Pearl Jam you're holding on to?

It absolutely isn't. It's hard to just accept that and move on though. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Since I was 8, Pearl Jam has been my favorite band. I had all their cassettes, went to shows, learned everything they did on guitar. They influenced me to play and write my own music. They got me through tough times.

Now, I find myself listening to the back catalog. Not because of nostalgia, but because since Just Breathe most of their new stuff isn't what I personally like. I always held onto Pearl Jam because while other favorites (Metallica, Weezer, etc) were falling behind when it came to new output, Pearl Jam was still releasing things that were interesting. Now, sadly, they're in danger of becoming something they were against only 10 years ago.

Release_Me wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:But it's just so much cooler when the songs are sad, dark and brooding. Can't they just get angry at something?

It's not that it's much cooler, it's whats established. To me, the themes in LB are just cheesy and NOT Pearl Jam. FD has kind of grown on me with more listens, and I can accept it for what it is. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, sounds like the kind of crap Bon Jovi would be singing about. That's not pearl jam (IMHO). Pearl Jam's themes in the past have been deeper and more serious.

Maybe it's not the Pearl Jam you're holding on to?

It absolutely isn't. It's hard to just accept that and move on though. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Since I was 8, Pearl Jam has been my favorite band. I had all their cassettes, went to shows, learned everything they did on guitar. They influenced me to play and write my own music. They got me through tough times.

Now, I find myself listening to the back catalog. Not because of nostalgia, but because since Just Breathe most of their new stuff isn't what I personally like. I always held onto Pearl Jam because while other favorites (Metallica, Weezer, etc) were falling behind when it came to new output, Pearl Jam was still releasing things that were interesting. Now, sadly, they're in danger of becoming something they were against only 10 years ago.

I can understand that what they are doing now may not click or resonate with you. I don't agree that they've suddenly become some sort of mainstream pop band either, if that's what you mean by what they were against 10 years ago. They wrote difficult, inaccessible music from 96-02 and have gone back to songs with more hooks, except this time the themes aren't as dark. The first three albums had their fair share of hooks and poppy songs but the mood was generally dark. That resonated with me too back in the day and I still enjoy listening to those songs. I recognize the first three albums as PJ at their best. The era after that did nothing for me. I am genuinely enjoying what they have been putting out from S/T onwards.

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:But it's just so much cooler when the songs are sad, dark and brooding. Can't they just get angry at something?

It's not that it's much cooler, it's whats established. To me, the themes in LB are just cheesy and NOT Pearl Jam. FD has kind of grown on me with more listens, and I can accept it for what it is. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, sounds like the kind of crap Bon Jovi would be singing about. That's not pearl jam (IMHO). Pearl Jam's themes in the past have been deeper and more serious.

Maybe it's not the Pearl Jam you're holding on to?

I think any one of us could adjust to highly creative material that didn't necessarily agree with our notion of PJ. The problem is that this stuff isn't highly creative. So unless you're OK with that, there's not much to see here.

I don't think PJ was ever a very creative band. If anything, they are highly derivate of their influences which of course have changed over the years. They did experiment somewhat on occasions but they are a pretty straightforward rock band who are just extremely good at what they do. Expecting something highly creative 20+ years into their career when they haven't shown a huge penchant for it in previous years is unrealistic to me. This is probably where you would disagree with me and point to the No Code-Riot Act era as being creatively sublime. I just don't hear it.

Whilst I'm sympathetic with this argument and agree with it to an extent, PJ were not a dumb rock band. Bon Jovi was. PJ was not a dumb rock band when they made Vitalogy, No Code, Yield, Binaural or Riot Act. There is interest and creativity in all of these albums. I'm not asking for avant-garde innovation. I'm not really asking for anything. I'm just wondering what made them start wanting to write less substantial, more free-and-easy songs.

Release_Me wrote: I am genuinely enjoying what they have been putting out from S/T onwards.