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Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Wed March 30, 2022 11:54 pm
by Ms Harmless
why don't we decide sex according to hair colour? it's literally because we don't fuck hair colour, and science said we needed a binary system to describe how we fuck
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Wed March 30, 2022 11:58 pm
by tree_
Well, reproduction is something
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Wed March 30, 2022 11:59 pm
by Strat
tree_ wrote:Well, reproduction is something
Reproduction and anatomy are real things.
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Wed March 30, 2022 11:59 pm
by Ms Harmless
sure, but nonbinary people are reproducing and having children they're not forcing a gender onto
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:00 am
by Ms Harmless
Strat wrote:tree_ wrote:Well, reproduction is something
Reproduction and anatomy are real things.
excellent work Strat
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:01 am
by Ms Harmless
I love how I can go for pages and pages laying out this stuff and someone will still think I'm saying reproduction and anatomy are fake
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:05 am
by Rob
Ms Harmless wrote:Rob wrote:Ms Harmless wrote:Ms Harmless wrote:Rob wrote:Ms Harmless wrote:when babies are born, our doctors could just be saying "your beautiful baby has this biological / anatomical arrangement; let's lay out a personalised plan for their healthcare" (and your baby can decide their gender as they grow); and that's a thing already starting to happen; I have friends raising kids this way
Are there more than 2 biological arrangements for 99%+ and then a mix of those two for that tiny minority?
"tiny minority"
sure I get where this is going
It's a simple question. Type "percentage of intersex births" into google and it'll tell you it's 1.7%. I'm asking if there is a 4th arrangement (your word).
there are innumerable configurations of "secondary sex characteristics" in humans; the fact that we can make a "minority" of any of those if we want to doesn't matter; we don't need to, there are good reasons not to, and science is increasingly agreeing
Sure, but how about the primary characteristics? We aren't talking about hair or the size of boobs. All I'm asking here is for you to admit that 98.3% of people are born with organs that science considers male or female. Half have penises and testicles, half have vaginas, uteruses and the ability to lactate. Is this not a fact? I mean no disrespect here, honestly. I just think facts matter, and while maybe we'll come to some other understanding at some point, we are at a point now where even a lefty/liberal guy like me thinks it's going too far. I've read a lot over the years about what Trans people go through and am genuinely sympathetic. I'm always for "rights for everyone" and wish people to live as they please. But denying what is science doesn't benefit anyone.
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:05 am
by Ms Harmless
things people are saying could never work are already working
science!!
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:06 am
by Ms Harmless
Rob wrote:Ms Harmless wrote:Rob wrote:Ms Harmless wrote:Ms Harmless wrote:Rob wrote:Ms Harmless wrote:when babies are born, our doctors could just be saying "your beautiful baby has this biological / anatomical arrangement; let's lay out a personalised plan for their healthcare" (and your baby can decide their gender as they grow); and that's a thing already starting to happen; I have friends raising kids this way
Are there more than 2 biological arrangements for 99%+ and then a mix of those two for that tiny minority?
"tiny minority"
sure I get where this is going
It's a simple question. Type "percentage of intersex births" into google and it'll tell you it's 1.7%. I'm asking if there is a 4th arrangement (your word).
there are innumerable configurations of "secondary sex characteristics" in humans; the fact that we can make a "minority" of any of those if we want to doesn't matter; we don't need to, there are good reasons not to, and science is increasingly agreeing
Sure, but how about the primary characteristics? We aren't talking about hair or the size of boobs. All I'm asking here is for you to admit that 98.3% of people are born with organs that science considers male or female. Half have penises and testicles, half have vaginas, uteruses and the ability to lactate. Is this not a fact? I mean no disrespect here, honestly. I just think facts matter, and while maybe we'll come to some other understanding at some point, we are at a point now where even a lefty/liberal guy like me thinks it's going too far. I've read a lot over the years about what Trans people go through and am genuinely sympathetic. I'm always for "rights for everyone" and wish people to live as they please. But denying what is science doesn't benefit anyone.
I don't give a toffee what you think is "going too far", sorry
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:08 am
by Rob
omg, just tell me if there is a 4th configuration of body parts and I'll be done.
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:10 am
by Ms Harmless
I've spent my life being shoved into a "male" category because of various factors, so obviously "science" has been doing that; it's done unhealable damage to me, so you'll have to excuse me if I question and push against those boundaries and take things too far for Rob on RM
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:13 am
by Rob
Science is the reason many people have come to understand that gender is fluid. Culture is your enemy, not science. I am not speaking about gender.
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:13 am
by Ms Harmless
Rob wrote:omg, just tell me if there is a 4th configuration of body parts and I'll be done.
there isn't TWO configurations! in order to name a fourth, we'd need to name a first and a second, and also what hierarchical order they come in
why though? we don't need to do it; so let's keep working towards not doing it
or not, I don't care what you do
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:16 am
by Ms Harmless
Rob wrote:Science is the reason many people have come to understand that gender is fluid. Culture is your enemy, not science. I am not speaking about gender.
I agree science isn't my enemy; it has saved my fucking life many times over
we'll still have science and still need science if we don't have a binary sex framework, you don't need to worry
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:17 am
by Ms Harmless
also, Rob, you're still allowed to be a man with a dick in my scenario
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:18 am
by Strat
Ms Harmless wrote:also, Rob, you're still allowed to be a man with a dick in my scenario
I dont think the people here are worried about this, harmless.
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:19 am
by Ms Harmless
Strat wrote:Ms Harmless wrote:also, Rob, you're still allowed to be a man with a dick in my scenario
I dont think the people here are worried about this, harmless.
I was being facetious and it made me laugh, I don't know what Rob is worried about
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:19 am
by BurtReynolds
Harmless's framework or language isn't a big deal to me. People are free to believe whatever they want. More power to them if it gives them more control or meaning or understanding of themselves, and I think this is more than most people ever manage to do.
What is of interest to me is the a.) insistence that everyone else adopt this - and only this - framework as their own, and b.) that it is objectively, absolutely, materially real. This is - and I know everyone loves when I break out this word - tyrannical.
Harmless hasn't left the church. The perfect otherworld of platonic forms still rules.
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:20 am
by Rob
I respect your tenacity, Ms Harmless. And I hope you believe I respect your choices in life (and everyone else's). Freedom means living how you want to live without discrimination. We may disagree on the biological sex issue, but who among us agree on everything?
Re: Are you not going to watch the Oscars this year?
Posted: Thu March 31, 2022 12:20 am
by Strat
BurtReynolds wrote:Harmless's framework or language isn't a big deal to me. People are free to believe whatever they want. More power to them if it gives them more control or meaning or understanding of themselves, and I think this is more than most people ever manage to do.
What is of interest to me is the a.) insistence that everyone else adopt this - and only this - framework as their own, and b.) that it is objectively, absolutely, materially real. This is - and I know everyone loves when I break out this word - tyrannical.
Harmless hasn't left the church. The perfect otherworld of platonic forms still rules.
You had me till you went full on burt about tyranny.