Red Mosquito

Strat wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:Retrograde is awesome. Can't wait to blast that one on good speakers. Pearl Jam has *always* from Day 1 had their "cheesy" element. It's ultimately why I attached myself to them moreso than Nirvana way back then (who I love, but just can't relate to as much), who don't have this element in them. Yay for cheesy PJ.

I love it. I can fully appreciate the “it sounds like Sirens, so it sucks” knee jerk, but it isn’t the case that no song with that type of sound can be good. I also think it serves near the heart of the record’s message and as home to most of its dwindling hope.

Sirens is wonderful. Retrograde sucks.

Ms Harmless wrote:I'm repeating myself but I wish people would stop comparing Retrograde to Sirens

I love Sirens, but this is a more lowkey "Swallowed Whole" that is more... gently nibbled

stip wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I'm repeating myself but I wish people would stop comparing Retrograde to Sirens

I love Sirens, but this is a more lowkey "Swallowed Whole" that is more... gently nibbled

It seems more speed of sound than anything, but I can see how it might be more indebted to Swallowed Whole. I think Sirens (and I'm guilty of this too and I also like Sirens ) is just shorthand for big schmaltzy statement

Tuolumne wrote:

McParadigm wrote:I think one of the things I like so much about this record is that in almost every place where historical Pearl Jam would have tossed in a quick, forgettable solo, hit another chorus, and then repeated either the verse or the chorus progression into a fade out, this record looks for something else to do. It feels less like a bunch of dudes asking each other “OK so what do we do for the bridge,” and more like a song happened. Like they stretched out and played with totally open minds, without concern for how it will work live or whether it sounded too corny or whatever.

Never Destination is a great example. I can understand why some people would be turned off by the first half (I like it), because at this point just the IDEA of fast Pearl Jam is a little exhausting. But what would have in previous years been 20 seconds of idea played for 2 1/2 minutes now blossoms in the second half, exposing a beauty that no rushed post-punk pearl jam effort ever gave you, before landing as delicately as a butterfly.

Great record. Front to back.

So, I think you make some good points here. However, I don't attribute the approach they took on the last few records as being ha'f ass or lazy in any way at all. I think they scrutinized those songs for the purposes of tightness and precision. They went gave the songs a look over, "how can we make this more concise and to the point?" It was the old 'don't bore us get to the chorus' mindset, and I think that's from being big fans of garage rock. There is the BoB factor too, where there are choices they make n Gigaton that he just wouldn't have allowed. I think they knew it was time for something different, and they let the songs breathe more, which is what we have here.

stip wrote:Good luck, Harmless. This is an album about building bridges. I hope it works

Ms Harmless wrote:I'm repeating myself but I wish people would stop comparing Retrograde to Sirens

I love Sirens, but this is a more lowkey "Swallowed Whole" that is more... gently nibbled

corduroyg wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I'm repeating myself but I wish people would stop comparing Retrograde to Sirens

I love Sirens, but this is a more lowkey "Swallowed Whole" that is more... gently nibbled

i havent listened to the leak yet, but this gives me hope that ill like retrograde cuz i love swallowed whole.

McParadigm wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

McParadigm wrote:I think one of the things I like so much about this record is that in almost every place where historical Pearl Jam would have tossed in a quick, forgettable solo, hit another chorus, and then repeated either the verse or the chorus progression into a fade out, this record looks for something else to do. It feels less like a bunch of dudes asking each other “OK so what do we do for the bridge,” and more like a song happened. Like they stretched out and played with totally open minds, without concern for how it will work live or whether it sounded too corny or whatever.

Never Destination is a great example. I can understand why some people would be turned off by the first half (I like it), because at this point just the IDEA of fast Pearl Jam is a little exhausting. But what would have in previous years been 20 seconds of idea played for 2 1/2 minutes now blossoms in the second half, exposing a beauty that no rushed post-punk pearl jam effort ever gave you, before landing as delicately as a butterfly.

Great record. Front to back.

So, I think you make some good points here. However, I don't attribute the approach they took on the last few records as being ha'f ass or lazy in any way at all. I think they scrutinized those songs for the purposes of tightness and precision. They went gave the songs a look over, "how can we make this more concise and to the point?" It was the old 'don't bore us get to the chorus' mindset, and I think that's from being big fans of garage rock. There is the BoB factor too, where there are choices they make n Gigaton that he just wouldn't have allowed. I think they knew it was time for something different, and they let the songs breathe more, which is what we have here.

There’s probably a lot of truth to this. But I think that:

1. “Don’t bore us and get to the chorus” conciseness plays to none of this band’s strengths, and they aren’t naturally good at it.

2. Tom Petty and others utilize that approach from a place of comfort and confidence. Pearl Jam just ends up sounding uninspired and insecure as hell.

Tuolumne wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

McParadigm wrote:I think one of the things I like so much about this record is that in almost every place where historical Pearl Jam would have tossed in a quick, forgettable solo, hit another chorus, and then repeated either the verse or the chorus progression into a fade out, this record looks for something else to do. It feels less like a bunch of dudes asking each other “OK so what do we do for the bridge,” and more like a song happened. Like they stretched out and played with totally open minds, without concern for how it will work live or whether it sounded too corny or whatever.

Never Destination is a great example. I can understand why some people would be turned off by the first half (I like it), because at this point just the IDEA of fast Pearl Jam is a little exhausting. But what would have in previous years been 20 seconds of idea played for 2 1/2 minutes now blossoms in the second half, exposing a beauty that no rushed post-punk pearl jam effort ever gave you, before landing as delicately as a butterfly.

Great record. Front to back.

So, I think you make some good points here. However, I don't attribute the approach they took on the last few records as being ha'f ass or lazy in any way at all. I think they scrutinized those songs for the purposes of tightness and precision. They went gave the songs a look over, "how can we make this more concise and to the point?" It was the old 'don't bore us get to the chorus' mindset, and I think that's from being big fans of garage rock. There is the BoB factor too, where there are choices they make n Gigaton that he just wouldn't have allowed. I think they knew it was time for something different, and they let the songs breathe more, which is what we have here.

There’s probably a lot of truth to this. But I think that:

1. “Don’t bore us and get to the chorus” conciseness plays to none of this band’s strengths, and they aren’t naturally good at it.

2. Tom Petty and others utilize that approach from a place of comfort and confidence. Pearl Jam just ends up sounding uninspired and insecure as hell.

I dunno, it's just where we disagree. I think Backspacer *killed* it in terms of having just tight, crackling songs. Some more new wavey, some more classic PJ but with the Backspacer vibe. If we had 3 Gigatons I think we'd want that crackling energy again. It's just a matter of choices, rather than inspiration. I've always thought this band has stayed inspired, they just may not have made the choices some fans like.

All that said, even the "tight" Gigaton songs have a certain element of wandering here, which goes to the points already made. It's just the changes they wanted to make, and down for it. Lots to dig into on this record.

Farmer John wrote:really enjoyed this playlist:

Who Ever Said
Never Destination
Dance of the Clairvoyants
Quick Escape
Alright
Buckle Up
Take the Long Way
Comes Then Goes
River Cross

Ms Harmless wrote:I'm repeating myself but I wish people would stop comparing Retrograde to Sirens

I love Sirens, but this is a more lowkey "Swallowed Whole" that is more... gently nibbled