Red Mosquito

That's fair enough. I really like the three songs Thejambi lists from Riot Act, but each to his own and all that. Man, that phrase winds me up now.

The artwork is still awesome and continues to grow on me.

harmless wrote:The artwork is still awesome and continues to grow on me.

You may have found Jesus .

Thejambi wrote:

harmless wrote:The artwork is still awesome and continues to grow on me.

You may have found Jesus .

I found Jesus when I was 6. I think I'm losing him now but we'll see.

Admittedly, I don't like the way things have gone for the past few years, but I do note there was a similar quantity of complaining and resentment back when I joined this forums in 2005 regarding Riot Act. At the time I was still a teenager and getting used to the fanbase opinion on here. Riot Act was the strongest album the band had made, in my opinion. It was a passionate, patient and proactive record. I eventually settled on Binaural being my favourite record but Riot Act is in my top 3.

I won't buy in to the Backspacer and S/T positivity - it's abundantly clear that there's a true lack of complexity and conflict in the songwriting and construction process resulting is simplistic and formulaic output with pop overtones and a stock rock n roll riff. Since things have gone digital, Pearl Jam have taken an increasingly back seat towards writing, recording, production, marketing, perhaps even touring (5 shows in Italy, 1 in the UK, what's that all about?). When they guys who do enjoy newer material do (and you are more than entitled to do so) I don't really read many valid justifications for that. It's more of a stronger sense of nostalgia (I feel too young for that) or perhaps accessibility. I still reckon if Vedder had written Johnny Guitar back in '96, it wouldn't even have made it onto a Christmas single.

In a truly, non-nostalgic sense, I'd be shocked if the band could produce another All Those Yesterdays or You Are. Instead we're stuck with plodders like Come Back and Future Days that make me want to listen to bands that can actually try and still care. I think the lack of self-doubt in the band is making things far too easy now. Perhaps, with age, there's a submission to redundancy.

OmegaprimeVKM wrote:Admittedly, I don't like the way things have gone for the past few years, but I do note there was a similar quantity of complaining and resentment back when I joined this forums in 2005 regarding Riot Act. At the time I was still a teenager and getting used to the fanbase opinion on here. Riot Act was the strongest album the band had made, in my opinion. It was a passionate, patient and proactive record. I eventually settled on Binaural being my favourite record but Riot Act is in my top 3.

I won't buy in to the Backspacer and S/T positivity - it's abundantly clear that there's a true lack of complexity and conflict in the songwriting and construction process resulting is simplistic and formulaic output with pop overtones and a stock rock n roll riff. Since things have gone digital, Pearl Jam have taken an increasingly back seat towards writing, recording, production, marketing, perhaps even touring (5 shows in Italy, 1 in the UK, what's that all about?). When they guys who do enjoy newer material do (and you are more than entitled to do so) I don't really read many valid justifications for that. It's more of a stronger sense of nostalgia (I feel too young for that) or perhaps accessibility. I still reckon if Vedder had written Johnny Guitar back in '96, it wouldn't even have made it onto a Christmas single.

In a truly, non-nostalgic sense, I'd be shocked if the band could produce another All Those Yesterdays or You Are. Instead we're stuck with plodders like Come Back and Future Days that make me want to listen to bands that can actually try and still care. I think the lack of self-doubt in the band is making things far too easy now. Perhaps, with age, there's a submission to redundancy.

So now I'm wondering whether there's an equivalent band for you, where there's a preparedness to forgive the missteps a little because of your history with them. There may not be, I'm just asking.

harmless wrote:

OmegaprimeVKM wrote:Admittedly, I don't like the way things have gone for the past few years, but I do note there was a similar quantity of complaining and resentment back when I joined this forums in 2005 regarding Riot Act. At the time I was still a teenager and getting used to the fanbase opinion on here. Riot Act was the strongest album the band had made, in my opinion. It was a passionate, patient and proactive record. I eventually settled on Binaural being my favourite record but Riot Act is in my top 3.

I won't buy in to the Backspacer and S/T positivity - it's abundantly clear that there's a true lack of complexity and conflict in the songwriting and construction process resulting is simplistic and formulaic output with pop overtones and a stock rock n roll riff. Since things have gone digital, Pearl Jam have taken an increasingly back seat towards writing, recording, production, marketing, perhaps even touring (5 shows in Italy, 1 in the UK, what's that all about?). When they guys who do enjoy newer material do (and you are more than entitled to do so) I don't really read many valid justifications for that. It's more of a stronger sense of nostalgia (I feel too young for that) or perhaps accessibility. I still reckon if Vedder had written Johnny Guitar back in '96, it wouldn't even have made it onto a Christmas single.

In a truly, non-nostalgic sense, I'd be shocked if the band could produce another All Those Yesterdays or You Are. Instead we're stuck with plodders like Come Back and Future Days that make me want to listen to bands that can actually try and still care. I think the lack of self-doubt in the band is making things far too easy now. Perhaps, with age, there's a submission to redundancy.

So now I'm wondering whether there's an equivalent band for you, where there's a preparedness to forgive the missteps a little because of your history with them. There may not be, I'm just asking.

Indeed - I suppose there are. I stuck with Idlewild and Doves and their resentment of industry / passive fan popularity has led them to self-released music in the former case and a very slow and reserved release structure in the latter. I imagine that most who like them do not like them to the same degree that they did in their heyday and I reckon I won't spin their albums the way I did perhaps 5-10 years ago. However, most of the bands I picked up listening to in my teens, like Oasis, The Bluetones, The Stereophonics - I have massively outgrown and will listen to output only for nostalgia reasons, but I am totally aware of that.

I don't think I listen to anything for nostalgic reasons. I listen if I like it, even a little bit. If I don't like something I'll go off it and not listen, like plenty of bands from my childhood, and like most of S/T and Backspacer. I guess if the nostalgia argument held up, I'd still be listening to Green Jelly or Ugly Kid Joe.

OmegaprimeVKM wrote:Admittedly, I don't like the way things have gone for the past few years, but I do note there was a similar quantity of complaining and resentment back when I joined this forums in 2005 regarding Riot Act. At the time I was still a teenager and getting used to the fanbase opinion on here. Riot Act was the strongest album the band had made, in my opinion. It was a passionate, patient and proactive record. I eventually settled on Binaural being my favourite record but Riot Act is in my top 3.

I won't buy in to the Backspacer and S/T positivity - it's abundantly clear that there's a true lack of complexity and conflict in the songwriting and construction process resulting is simplistic and formulaic output with pop overtones and a stock rock n roll riff. Since things have gone digital, Pearl Jam have taken an increasingly back seat towards writing, recording, production, marketing, perhaps even touring (5 shows in Italy, 1 in the UK, what's that all about?). When they guys who do enjoy newer material do (and you are more than entitled to do so) I don't really read many valid justifications for that. It's more of a stronger sense of nostalgia (I feel too young for that) or perhaps accessibility. I still reckon if Vedder had written Johnny Guitar back in '96, it wouldn't even have made it onto a Christmas single.

In a truly, non-nostalgic sense, I'd be shocked if the band could produce another All Those Yesterdays or You Are. Instead we're stuck with plodders like Come Back and Future Days that make me want to listen to bands that can actually try and still care. I think the lack of self-doubt in the band is making things far too easy now. Perhaps, with age, there's a submission to redundancy.

I love the fall back to "they aren't trying and they don't care" observation because they haven't made music that you like. Let's all stop fooling ourselves that Pearl Jam music was ever really that complicated or innovative. They were never a band looking to redefine or push the boundary's of rock and to think that they should be now and criticize them for it is asinine.

harmless wrote:I don't think I listen to anything for nostalgic reasons. I listen if I like it, even a little bit. If I don't like something I'll go off it and not listen, like plenty of bands from my childhood, and like most of S/T and Backspacer. I guess if the nostalgia argument held up, I'd still be listening to Green Jelly or Ugly Kid Joe.

I don't know if there's a nostalgia aspect, but I definitely am sure I give PJ a pass due to them being such an important band to me. I pop in Backspacer or S/T every once in a while; I just can't see me ever listening to those records if it wasn't this band, or another band that has a similar stature for me.

Thejambi wrote:I love the fall back to "they aren't trying and they don't care" observation because they haven't made music that you like. Let's all stop fooling ourselves that Pearl Jam music was ever really that complicated or innovative. They were never a band looking to redefine or push the boundary's of rock and to think that they should be now and criticize them for it is asinine.

I think it's emotionally easier for people to tell themselves "They're not awesome because they don't want to be awesome" than to accept that they may just not be as good of a band as they were ten years ago. People want to hold on to the idea that they could make an album like Yield if they REALLY wanted to, but they just don't.

digster wrote:

harmless wrote:I don't think I listen to anything for nostalgic reasons. I listen if I like it, even a little bit. If I don't like something I'll go off it and not listen, like plenty of bands from my childhood, and like most of S/T and Backspacer. I guess if the nostalgia argument held up, I'd still be listening to Green Jelly or Ugly Kid Joe.

I don't know if there's a nostalgia aspect, but I definitely am sure I give PJ a pass due to them being such an important band to me. I pop in Backspacer or S/T every once in a while; I just can't see me ever listening to those records if it wasn't this band, or another band that has a similar stature for me.

This is true. I just don't think that can be boiled down to nostalgia. It's attachment, it's trust, the same thing that keeps you in love for the same amount of time and longer. We don't stay married because we're nostalgic for our wedding day, and we don't still listen to our favourite bands because of old material. We listen to them because however lacklustre they've been, they've never let us down to such an extent there's any reason to drop them.

harmless wrote:

digster wrote:

harmless wrote:I don't think I listen to anything for nostalgic reasons. I listen if I like it, even a little bit. If I don't like something I'll go off it and not listen, like plenty of bands from my childhood, and like most of S/T and Backspacer. I guess if the nostalgia argument held up, I'd still be listening to Green Jelly or Ugly Kid Joe.

I don't know if there's a nostalgia aspect, but I definitely am sure I give PJ a pass due to them being such an important band to me. I pop in Backspacer or S/T every once in a while; I just can't see me ever listening to those records if it wasn't this band, or another band that has a similar stature for me.

This is true. I just don't think that can be boiled down to nostalgia. It's attachment, it's trust, the same thing that keeps you in love for the same amount of time and longer. We don't stay married because we're nostalgic for our wedding day, and we don't still listen to our favourite bands because of old material. We listen to them because however lacklustre they've been, they've never let us down to such an extent there's any reason to drop them.

Good point.

Lament wrote:

Thejambi wrote:I love the fall back to "they aren't trying and they don't care" observation because they haven't made music that you like. Let's all stop fooling ourselves that Pearl Jam music was ever really that complicated or innovative. They were never a band looking to redefine or push the boundary's of rock and to think that they should be now and criticize them for it is asinine.

I think it's emotionally easier for people to tell themselves "They're not awesome because they don't want to be awesome" than to accept that they may just not be as good of a band as they were ten years ago. People want to hold on to the idea that they could make an album like Yield if they REALLY wanted to, but they just don't.

Don't or can't? You seem to be wanting to say 'can't' here.

I don't think "lazy" is the right word. Its more that they possibly believe that working on something too much kills it. Are they right? who knows.

It did for S/T, but it didn't for the 7 albums before it.

harmless wrote:

Lament wrote:

Thejambi wrote:I love the fall back to "they aren't trying and they don't care" observation because they haven't made music that you like. Let's all stop fooling ourselves that Pearl Jam music was ever really that complicated or innovative. They were never a band looking to redefine or push the boundary's of rock and to think that they should be now and criticize them for it is asinine.

I think it's emotionally easier for people to tell themselves "They're not awesome because they don't want to be awesome" than to accept that they may just not be as good of a band as they were ten years ago. People want to hold on to the idea that they could make an album like Yield if they REALLY wanted to, but they just don't.

Don't or can't? You seem to be wanting to say 'can't' here.

No, I mean "don't." It probably would have been clearer if I had said "but they just don't want to." It's still in the context of what the theoretical fan in question wants to believe.

It's not that they are lazy or don't want to be awesome. They're just thinned out and shallow now. the little bit of complexities that used to be there, are not. Probably has to do with Eddie being less disaffected about the bigger picture these days. That's fine too, just not where I think his strengths are.

Lament wrote:

harmless wrote:

Lament wrote:

Thejambi wrote:I love the fall back to "they aren't trying and they don't care" observation because they haven't made music that you like. Let's all stop fooling ourselves that Pearl Jam music was ever really that complicated or innovative. They were never a band looking to redefine or push the boundary's of rock and to think that they should be now and criticize them for it is asinine.

I think it's emotionally easier for people to tell themselves "They're not awesome because they don't want to be awesome" than to accept that they may just not be as good of a band as they were ten years ago. People want to hold on to the idea that they could make an album like Yield if they REALLY wanted to, but they just don't.

Don't or can't? You seem to be wanting to say 'can't' here.

No, I mean "don't." It probably would have been clearer if I had said "but they just don't want to." It's still in the context of what the theoretical fan in question wants to believe.

This is kind of where I get lost. The album which they supposedly can't make now is Yield? To me, that's kind of absurd because that's the album LB most reminds me of. Yield is probably PJ's earliest attempt to make poppier, more anthemic songs with positive or at least uplifting themes. I just don't think they did a very good job of it overall, a few great songs notwithstanding. Even those were very basic songs, nothing out of the ordinary as far as song structures are concerned. Vitalogy, Vs and Ten are the albums they probably can't make now. Or at least not make with any degree of artistic integrity.

It's like everyone wants them to make darker songs, but then the album name they throwaround is Yield? I'm just trying to understand this, forgive my repetition.

evenslow wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

MemoFromTurner wrote:

harmless wrote:

JimX6 wrote:

Release_Me wrote: I am genuinely enjoying what they have been putting out from S/T onwards.

S/T was okay to me.. Recently BS is where I started to feel the way I do now. It was admittedly after a long break from Pearl Jam I had listened to all their albums again and found I don't like Backspacer much. I do love some of it, but as a whole it's not for me. Interesting enough my taste in PJ has changed since the last time I posted a lot on this board. Riot Act is my favorite followed closely by Vitalogy and No Code.

Riot Act is savagely underrated by humans.

I don't know man. Have you ever tried playing this thing from top to bottom for a normal human? You know, like, not one of us?

They're usually asleep by I Am Mine.


It's a good album and all, and I like it, but it just doesn't move people all that much.

I find myself skipping around a lot less with Riot Act than say, Backspacer