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Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 12:40 pm
by harmless
Blenheim Augustine wrote:stip wrote:I'm not saying the songs are usually bad live. Just not as good as the studio version. The value added from pearl jam live is being there live, and the energy in the room. Grainy bootlegs tend to not capture that
I assume some people mean that when they like something live they like it live not a recording of them playing live?
Nope. There are some who would argue that once you've heard these live versions of LB songs, that's it; there's no point hoping for studio versions to be an improvement at all because PJ play everything exactly right. Which... yeah.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 12:47 pm
by stip
Blenheim Augustine wrote:I'd prefer any song live because it would mean I would be at a Pearl Jam concert rather than wearing headphones on the way to work.
oh sure. the experience of going to a concert beats the experience of listening to an album. I assume we're talking about bootlegs, etc.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 1:00 pm
by Thejambi
harmless wrote:Blenheim Augustine wrote:stip wrote:I'm not saying the songs are usually bad live. Just not as good as the studio version. The value added from pearl jam live is being there live, and the energy in the room. Grainy bootlegs tend to not capture that
I assume some people mean that when they like something live they like it live not a recording of them playing live?
Nope. There are some who would argue that once you've heard these live versions of LB songs, that's it; there's no point hoping for studio versions to be an improvement at all because PJ play everything exactly right. Which... yeah.
Yeah this seems closer the what's going on round here.
In the 90's I only enjoyed live versions because of the extreme nasty Ed could unleash.
Since then i only enjoy live versions if they are a different arrangement/vocal/lyric etc.
Sometimes a live version will help me enjoy a studio version more (Help,Help, Grievance)
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 1:09 pm
by harmless
Thejambi wrote:harmless wrote:Blenheim Augustine wrote:stip wrote:I'm not saying the songs are usually bad live. Just not as good as the studio version. The value added from pearl jam live is being there live, and the energy in the room. Grainy bootlegs tend to not capture that
I assume some people mean that when they like something live they like it live not a recording of them playing live?
Nope. There are some who would argue that once you've heard these live versions of LB songs, that's it; there's no point hoping for studio versions to be an improvement at all because PJ play everything exactly right. Which... yeah.
Yeah this seems closer the what's going on round here.
In the 90's I only enjoyed live versions because of the extreme nasty Ed could unleash.
Since then i only enjoy live versions if they are a different arrangement/vocal/lyric etc.
Sometimes a live version will help me enjoy a studio version more (Help,Help, Grievance)
Whilst I didn't
only enjoy live versions in the 90s, I'm with you in these points.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 1:31 pm
by epilogue
stip wrote:I'm not saying the songs are usually bad live. Just not as good as the studio version. The value added from pearl jam live is being there live, and the energy in the room.
Completely agree. There's a reason they're such a highly regarded live act. It's just rare when I prefer a live version to a studio version. Then again, I haven't listened to as many live shows as others around here.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 1:32 pm
by epilogue
Blenheim Augustine wrote:stip wrote:I'm not saying the songs are usually bad live. Just not as good as the studio version. The value added from pearl jam live is being there live, and the energy in the room. Grainy bootlegs tend to not capture that
I assume some people mean that when they like something live they like it live not a recording of them playing live? I do like listening to bootlegs but you're not going to beat the quality of a studio recording. I'm not sure of any songs (excluding Backspacer which I don't listen to) where I'd rush to a live version over the studio. Probably only Yellow Ledbetter from the Daughter single, an early Even Flow and the Monkey Wrench DTE. Man of the Hour and Fatal from Benaroya are possibilities.
Yeah, that first Benaroya disc is pretty solid. I do love those versions quite a bit. That's probably the live album I listen to the most.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 1:33 pm
by digster
harmless wrote:Blenheim Augustine wrote:stip wrote:I'm not saying the songs are usually bad live. Just not as good as the studio version. The value added from pearl jam live is being there live, and the energy in the room. Grainy bootlegs tend to not capture that
I assume some people mean that when they like something live they like it live not a recording of them playing live?
Nope. There are some who would argue that once you've heard these live versions of LB songs, that's it; there's no point hoping for studio versions to be an improvement at all because PJ play everything exactly right. Which... yeah.
I don't think anyone's been arguing that. It seemed kind of extreme in the other direction, that you couldn't make any value judgment about the quality of these songs at all, because we hadn't heard the studio version. That's equally as wrong as thinking that there couldn't be any improvements to the song on the studio cuts.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 1:34 pm
by epilogue
Thejambi wrote:Sometimes a live version will help me enjoy a studio version more (Help,Help, Grievance)
The first time I heard You Are live, I almost exploded. It took that song to a whole new level for me. And I was already a big fan of the thing.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 1:36 pm
by harmless
digster wrote:harmless wrote:Blenheim Augustine wrote:stip wrote:I'm not saying the songs are usually bad live. Just not as good as the studio version. The value added from pearl jam live is being there live, and the energy in the room. Grainy bootlegs tend to not capture that
I assume some people mean that when they like something live they like it live not a recording of them playing live?
Nope. There are some who would argue that once you've heard these live versions of LB songs, that's it; there's no point hoping for studio versions to be an improvement at all because PJ play everything exactly right. Which... yeah.
I don't think anyone's been arguing that.
What? Yes they have, to me personally. People on this board have literally said that if I don't like a live version, there's no way I'll like the album version because live is where PJ shine.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 1:39 pm
by harmless
Or to put it another way, these live LB songs are as good as they'll get.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 1:41 pm
by elliseamos
harmless wrote:Or to put it another way, these live LB songs are as good as they'll get.
i've read some posts this way as well. but to be fair, how much is a song
really going to change in the studio version?
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 1:42 pm
by harmless
elliseamos wrote:harmless wrote:Or to put it another way, these live LB songs are as good as they'll get.
i've read some posts this way as well. but to be fair, how much is a song
really going to change in the studio version?
Do we have to do this again? There are probably several threads where I've already answered this.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 1:49 pm
by elliseamos
harmless wrote:elliseamos wrote:harmless wrote:Or to put it another way, these live LB songs are as good as they'll get.
i've read some posts this way as well. but to be fair, how much is a song
really going to change in the studio version?
Do we have to do this again? There are probably several threads where I've already answered this.
no, it was mostly rhetorical.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 1:51 pm
by harmless
elliseamos wrote:harmless wrote:elliseamos wrote:harmless wrote:Or to put it another way, these live LB songs are as good as they'll get.
i've read some posts this way as well. but to be fair, how much is a song
really going to change in the studio version?
Do we have to do this again? There are probably several threads where I've already answered this.
no, it was mostly rhetorical.
Oh, OK.
Well, the thing is, I'd have to turn the question back to you. How much does a song change when taken from the studio version to a live stage? Not at all, a little, or a lot? There's your answer, for you. For me, PJ live versions are frequently diminished versions of their songs.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 1:59 pm
by Thejambi
harmless wrote:Thejambi wrote:harmless wrote:Blenheim Augustine wrote:stip wrote:I'm not saying the songs are usually bad live. Just not as good as the studio version. The value added from pearl jam live is being there live, and the energy in the room. Grainy bootlegs tend to not capture that
I assume some people mean that when they like something live they like it live not a recording of them playing live?
Nope. There are some who would argue that once you've heard these live versions of LB songs, that's it; there's no point hoping for studio versions to be an improvement at all because PJ play everything exactly right. Which... yeah.
Yeah this seems closer the what's going on round here.
In the 90's I only enjoyed live versions because of the extreme nasty Ed could unleash.
Since then i only enjoy live versions if they are a different arrangement/vocal/lyric etc.
Sometimes a live version will help me enjoy a studio version more (Help,Help, Grievance)
Whilst I didn't
only enjoy live versions in the 90s, I'm with you in these points.
I suppose
only was a bit too directed. I should have said that I enjoy them
more when they hit on those points.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 2:01 pm
by elliseamos
harmless wrote:How much does a song change when taken from the studio version to a live stage? Not at all, a little, or a lot? There's your answer, for you.
and i'd say it changes depending on the song, when it's played during a show, what the recording quality is (studio & bootleg), and how many times it's been played.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 2:04 pm
by harmless
elliseamos wrote:harmless wrote:How much does a song change when taken from the studio version to a live stage? Not at all, a little, or a lot? There's your answer, for you.
and i'd say it changes depending on the song, when it's played during a show, what the recording quality is (studio & bootleg), and how many times it's been played.
OK. So at the very least, the answer to your question is 'It depends on a lot of factors, but possibly quite a lot.'
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 2:04 pm
by philpritchard
harmless wrote:elliseamos wrote:harmless wrote:elliseamos wrote:harmless wrote:Or to put it another way, these live LB songs are as good as they'll get.
i've read some posts this way as well. but to be fair, how much is a song
really going to change in the studio version?
Do we have to do this again? There are probably several threads where I've already answered this.
no, it was mostly rhetorical.
Oh, OK.
Well, the thing is, I'd have to turn the question back to you. How much does a song change when taken from the studio version to a live stage?
Not at all, a little, or a lot? There's your answer, for you. For me, PJ live versions are frequently diminished versions of their songs.
To me, any given PJ song can fit into any of those three categories, and even a single song can change from night to night. That's why I don't think we can really make any assumptions about what the album version will sound like. We just genuinely don't know.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 2:06 pm
by elliseamos
harmless wrote:elliseamos wrote:harmless wrote:How much does a song change when taken from the studio version to a live stage? Not at all, a little, or a lot? There's your answer, for you.
and i'd say it changes depending on the song, when it's played during a show, what the recording quality is (studio & bootleg), and how many times it's been played.
OK. So at the very least, the answer to your question is 'It depends on a lot of factors, but possibly quite a lot.'
recognizing, with all that said, that the differences between studio and live are not
that significant... but they do exist.
Re: Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes
Posted: Fri August 09, 2013 2:06 pm
by harmless
philpritchard wrote:harmless wrote:elliseamos wrote:harmless wrote:elliseamos wrote:harmless wrote:Or to put it another way, these live LB songs are as good as they'll get.
i've read some posts this way as well. but to be fair, how much is a song
really going to change in the studio version?
Do we have to do this again? There are probably several threads where I've already answered this.
no, it was mostly rhetorical.
Oh, OK.
Well, the thing is, I'd have to turn the question back to you. How much does a song change when taken from the studio version to a live stage?
Not at all, a little, or a lot? There's your answer, for you. For me, PJ live versions are frequently diminished versions of their songs.
To me, any given PJ song can fit into any of those three categories, and even a single song can change from night to night. That's why I don't think we can really make any assumptions about what the album version will sound like. We just genuinely don't know.
I've not made any assumptions. But neither have I made the assumption that these songs will suck just because their live versions suck, and others around here have.