Red Mosquito

Tuolumne wrote:

Heathen wrote:I don't think anyone wants a divisive album just for the sake of it or some other bullshit like that. Also, trying to be more radio-friendly because you fell off the mainstream radar does not mean you're pushing the envelope.

I think you're missing my point. Maybe they are pushing YOUR envelope, maybe that's what they are trying to do. Maybe they are sick of b-side/rarity-obsessed entitled fans who think they can press "play" on the band and get what they want. I think ultimately they may want to feel free. They aren't trapped by the mainstream right now that's for sure, if they feel trapped by anyone it's the hardcore fans. Just like they were sick of stagnating in the mainstram way back when, maybe they are sick of stagnating within the current fanbase. I personally just love it when a rock band fucks shit up.

LOL

They're pushing my envelope so much that I've stopped listening to them and moved on to bands that actually excite me.

Tuolumne wrote:. They aren't trapped by the mainstream right now that's for sure, if they feel trapped by anyone it's the hardcore fans. Just like they were sick of stagnating in the mainstream way back when, maybe they are sick of stagnating within the current fanbase. .

This is a valid question that applies outside of PJ and one I have discussed with fans of other bands before, but I don't it's the case. I think Vedder doesn't give a shit about PJ's 'legacy' in the way the fans do and will make whatever record he wants to make at the time. I could see this argument being more valid in the period after Binaural, but at this point I think they just want to put out material that doesn't offend anybody (Backspacer), hardcore fans or mainstream radio, not necessarily something that is truly inspired. All that lives in the side projects. Probably thanks to Vedder's indifference (or the outside appearance of it).

It seems unrealistic that they would try to get rid of the longtime hardcore fans, seeing how those probably are the only few people on Earth who even give a fuck about this band today. Who else than hardcore fans would buy dog collars?

broken iris wrote:I think Vedder doesn't give a shit about PJ's 'legacy' in the way the fans do and will make whatever record he wants to make at the time.

I actually think Vedder probably cares more about his band's "legacy" than most other musicians in the world.

broken iris wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:. They aren't trapped by the mainstream right now that's for sure, if they feel trapped by anyone it's the hardcore fans. Just like they were sick of stagnating in the mainstream way back when, maybe they are sick of stagnating within the current fanbase. .

This is a valid question that applies outside of PJ and one I have discussed with fans of other bands before, but I don't it's the case. I think Vedder doesn't give a shit about PJ's 'legacy' in the way the fans do and will make whatever record he wants to make at the time. I could see this argument being more valid in the period after Binaural, but at this point I think they just want to put out material that doesn't offend anybody (Backspacer), hardcore fans or mainstream radio, not necessarily something that is truly inspired. All that lives in the side projects. Probably thanks to Vedder's indifference (or the outside appearance of it).

My impression with the last 2 albums in particular is that hey don't want to offend anybody within the band 1st. This in my opinion has the risk of making their music almoust boring. I don't think giving a shit about their legacy works particularly well for them because they never really did that starting with Vs.
To me playing it safe or attempting to just doesn't work for them. It may not even be about songwriting but rather arrangements.

Thing is, they don't need the hardcore fans to care anymore, they have fucktons of money. The only reason they'd care about hardcore fans now is if they had any raw drive, creativity and interest.

harmless wrote:Thing is, they don't need the hardcore fans to care anymore, they have fucktons of money. The only reason they'd care about hardcore fans now is if they had any raw drive, creativity and interest.

And respect for what put all that money in their pockets.

It's the same pattern that happens with almost every long term big band in history. But because PJ has bucked many trends in the past, we believe they will somehow navigate through their career differently.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

harmless wrote:Thing is, they don't need the hardcore fans to care anymore, they have fucktons of money. The only reason they'd care about hardcore fans now is if they had any raw drive, creativity and interest.

And respect for what put all that money in their pockets.

Yup.

Heathen wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

Heathen wrote:I don't think anyone wants a divisive album just for the sake of it or some other bullshit like that. Also, trying to be more radio-friendly because you fell off the mainstream radar does not mean you're pushing the envelope.

I think you're missing my point. Maybe they are pushing YOUR envelope, maybe that's what they are trying to do. Maybe they are sick of b-side/rarity-obsessed entitled fans who think they can press "play" on the band and get what they want. I think ultimately they may want to feel free. They aren't trapped by the mainstream right now that's for sure, if they feel trapped by anyone it's the hardcore fans. Just like they were sick of stagnating in the mainstram way back when, maybe they are sick of stagnating within the current fanbase. I personally just love it when a rock band fucks shit up.

LOL

They're pushing my envelope so much that I've stopped listening to them and moved on to bands that actually excite me.

Yeah, well that's part of it. Weren't there a shitton of fans who did the same with No Code? Consider Backspacer your anti-No Code. It's just what naturally happens over the course of any long career. Maybe they'll come back to you, maybe they won't. There's plenty of great music out there.

Guys, we are mostly just talking about a clothing company right now.

Tuolumne wrote:

Heathen wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

Heathen wrote:I don't think anyone wants a divisive album just for the sake of it or some other bullshit like that. Also, trying to be more radio-friendly because you fell off the mainstream radar does not mean you're pushing the envelope.

I think you're missing my point. Maybe they are pushing YOUR envelope, maybe that's what they are trying to do. Maybe they are sick of b-side/rarity-obsessed entitled fans who think they can press "play" on the band and get what they want. I think ultimately they may want to feel free. They aren't trapped by the mainstream right now that's for sure, if they feel trapped by anyone it's the hardcore fans. Just like they were sick of stagnating in the mainstram way back when, maybe they are sick of stagnating within the current fanbase. I personally just love it when a rock band fucks shit up.

LOL

They're pushing my envelope so much that I've stopped listening to them and moved on to bands that actually excite me.

Yeah, well that's part of it. Weren't there a shitton of fans who did the same with No Code? Consider Backspacer your anti-No Code. It's just what naturally happens over the course of any long career. Maybe they'll come back to you, maybe they won't. There's plenty of great music out there.

If Peal Jam had made more records I'd agree with this and could let slip-ups - such as anything created by Matt C. - slide, but I think their margin for error is so thin with hardcore fans because it doesn't feel like they've produced enough records since 1991.

Tuolumne wrote:

Heathen wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

Heathen wrote:I don't think anyone wants a divisive album just for the sake of it or some other bullshit like that. Also, trying to be more radio-friendly because you fell off the mainstream radar does not mean you're pushing the envelope.

I think you're missing my point. Maybe they are pushing YOUR envelope, maybe that's what they are trying to do. Maybe they are sick of b-side/rarity-obsessed entitled fans who think they can press "play" on the band and get what they want. I think ultimately they may want to feel free. They aren't trapped by the mainstream right now that's for sure, if they feel trapped by anyone it's the hardcore fans. Just like they were sick of stagnating in the mainstram way back when, maybe they are sick of stagnating within the current fanbase. I personally just love it when a rock band fucks shit up.

LOL

They're pushing my envelope so much that I've stopped listening to them and moved on to bands that actually excite me.

Yeah, well that's part of it. Weren't there a shitton of fans who did the same with No Code? Consider Backspacer your anti-No Code. It's just what naturally happens over the course of any long career. Maybe they'll come back to you, maybe they won't. There's plenty of great music out there.

This is not about me liking the next album or not. This is about your idea that the band is saying fuck you to their fanbase. I think it's a ridiculous notion. If anything they seem to be trying to be big again after a few albums that made them lose fans.

I can't imagine they are so much concerned with alienating fans. I mean, they went through the reverse of the traditional career trajectory for a rock band around that time by hitting it out of the park huge on their debut. They've been losing fans since Vs.

liebzz wrote:I can't imagine they are so much concerned with alienating fans. I mean, they went through the reverse of the traditional career trajectory for a rock band around that time by hitting it out of the park huge on their debut. They've been losing fans since Vs.

You could argue they've been losing fans since 10 as it's their best selling album to date.

Mine wrote:

liebzz wrote:I can't imagine they are so much concerned with alienating fans. I mean, they went through the reverse of the traditional career trajectory for a rock band around that time by hitting it out of the park huge on their debut. They've been losing fans since Vs.

You could argue they've been losing fans since 10 as it's their best selling album to date.

Ha. Yes. That is exactly what I meant.

Heathen wrote:It seems unrealistic that they would try to get rid of the longtime hardcore fans, seeing how those probably are the only few people on Earth who even give a fuck about this band today. Who else than hardcore fans would buy dog collars?

BadMusic, right? You're definitely BadMusic.

i guess we can all agree they took a lot of time between records this time.

We were blessed with the two year gap between records back then, and now this 4 years gap seems really long.

theplatypus wrote:

Heathen wrote:It seems unrealistic that they would try to get rid of the longtime hardcore fans, seeing how those probably are the only few people on Earth who even give a fuck about this band today. Who else than hardcore fans would buy dog collars?

BadMusic, right? You're definitely BadMusic.

It was more flattering when you thought I was Raziel.

Heathen wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

Heathen wrote:I don't think anyone wants a divisive album just for the sake of it or some other bullshit like that. Also, trying to be more radio-friendly because you fell off the mainstream radar does not mean you're pushing the envelope.

I think you're missing my point. Maybe they are pushing YOUR envelope, maybe that's what they are trying to do. Maybe they are sick of b-side/rarity-obsessed entitled fans who think they can press "play" on the band and get what they want. I think ultimately they may want to feel free. They aren't trapped by the mainstream right now that's for sure, if they feel trapped by anyone it's the hardcore fans. Just like they were sick of stagnating in the mainstram way back when, maybe they are sick of stagnating within the current fanbase. I personally just love it when a rock band fucks shit up.

LOL

They're pushing my envelope so much that I've stopped listening to them and moved on to bands that actually excite me.

so it's the jamily that keeps you posting on RM, then?