Red Mosquito

Part of Pearl jam's appeal was that they weren't afraid to stand for things. They had principles. They cared. Even if I didn't agree with everything they stood for, I respected that about them. They took the time to care in a world that quite often doesn't give a shit. It just seems as if that's all past tense.

you know, it makes much more sense, to live, in the past tense.

elliseamos wrote:you know, it makes much more sense, to live, in the past tense.

We all are. Many are just saying the the present tense, we stand for nothing Pearl Jam is lacking and kinda sucks in many ways.

surfndestroy wrote:Part of Pearl jam's appeal was that they weren't afraid to stand for things. They had principles. They cared. Even if I didn't agree with everything they stood for, I respected that about them. They took the time to care in a world that quite often doesn't give a shit. It just seems as if that's all past tense.

I kinda dont care about that except that it was probably what made them such an intensely awesome band back in the day. i mean, if having no principles made their music better, I'd be all for it, but that clearly isnt the case with this band.

BurtReynolds wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:Part of Pearl jam's appeal was that they weren't afraid to stand for things. They had principles. They cared. Even if I didn't agree with everything they stood for, I respected that about them. They took the time to care in a world that quite often doesn't give a shit. It just seems as if that's all past tense.

I kinda dont care about that except that it was probably what made them such an intensely awesome band back in the day. i mean, if having no principles made their music better, I'd be all for it, but that clearly isnt the case with this band.

so there's no strange correllation between the decline of their artistic output and the ever-increasing volume of crap they are trying to sell us?

mastaflatch wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:Part of Pearl jam's appeal was that they weren't afraid to stand for things. They had principles. They cared. Even if I didn't agree with everything they stood for, I respected that about them. They took the time to care in a world that quite often doesn't give a shit. It just seems as if that's all past tense.

I kinda dont care about that except that it was probably what made them such an intensely awesome band back in the day. i mean, if having no principles made their music better, I'd be all for it, but that clearly isnt the case with this band.

so there's no strange correllation between the decline of their artistic output and the ever-increasing volume of crap they are trying to sell us?

no there probably is.

A return to form may not be in the cards, guys:

verb_to_trust wrote:The worst part of it all is not the merch....but how TERRIBLE the merch is.

Anybody see the Backspacer "sessions" jacket? For a cool 370 bucks you can look like an idiot and listen to The Fixer through the built in speakers!!

see, I have no problem at all with people bitching about shitty merchandise.

surfndestroy wrote:Part of Pearl jam's appeal was that they weren't afraid to stand for things. They had principles. They cared. Even if I didn't agree with everything they stood for, I respected that about them. They took the time to care in a world that quite often doesn't give a shit. It just seems as if that's all past tense.

and what principle does their fan club selling merchandise violate? Keep in mind i'm not arguing that pearl jam never had or should not have principles. I think their stand against ticketmaster was fantastic, I have respect (although I never enjoyed) for what they were trying to accomplish with the no videos/press stuff, and I think their general anti-corporate stance is commendable.

Somehow this all got twisted into pearl jam thinks making money is bad and now they're hypocrites. And that misses the mark.

mastaflatch wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:Part of Pearl jam's appeal was that they weren't afraid to stand for things. They had principles. They cared. Even if I didn't agree with everything they stood for, I respected that about them. They took the time to care in a world that quite often doesn't give a shit. It just seems as if that's all past tense.

I kinda dont care about that except that it was probably what made them such an intensely awesome band back in the day. i mean, if having no principles made their music better, I'd be all for it, but that clearly isnt the case with this band.

so there's no strange correllation between the decline of their artistic output and the ever-increasing volume of crap they are trying to sell us?

I am pretty skeptical about that. Well, no. There is probably a correlation if by decline you mean there is less music than there had been in the past. The 10club has to keep coming up with stuff, which is easier when there is new music. If you mean the alleged artistic decline in quality, than no. I don't think there is correlation.


In fact, I am reasonably confident that if the 10c decided to stop producing new merchandise many people (maybe not the same ones but I'm sure there's some overlap) would be arguing that the lack of merchandise was also a sign that pearl jam has stopped caring about their music, the band was breaking up, pearl jam was in decline, etc.

To be fair, the opportunity to sell as much shitty merch as possible probably wasn't there in the 90's or early 00's. As the internet marketplace has developed, there is a lot more opportunity to unload junk on your sheep like followers if you are a brand name rock band in 2013.

stip wrote:

mastaflatch wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:Part of Pearl jam's appeal was that they weren't afraid to stand for things. They had principles. They cared. Even if I didn't agree with everything they stood for, I respected that about them. They took the time to care in a world that quite often doesn't give a shit. It just seems as if that's all past tense.

I kinda dont care about that except that it was probably what made them such an intensely awesome band back in the day. i mean, if having no principles made their music better, I'd be all for it, but that clearly isnt the case with this band.

so there's no strange correllation between the decline of their artistic output and the ever-increasing volume of crap they are trying to sell us?

I am pretty skeptical about that. Well, no. There is probably a correlation if by decline you mean there is less music than there had been in the past. The 10club has to keep coming up with stuff, which is easier when there is new music. If you mean the alleged artistic decline in quality, than no. I don't think there is correlation.


In fact, I am reasonably confident that if the 10c decided to stop producing new merchandise many people (maybe not the same ones but I'm sure there's some overlap) would be arguing that the lack of merchandise was also a sign that pearl jam has stopped caring about their music, the band was breaking up, pearl jam was in decline, etc.

doubt it.

That is some godawful merch. Embarassing even. Especially the jacket.

At least they dont wear that crap at their shows. Always next tour....

stip wrote:

mastaflatch wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:Part of Pearl jam's appeal was that they weren't afraid to stand for things. They had principles. They cared. Even if I didn't agree with everything they stood for, I respected that about them. They took the time to care in a world that quite often doesn't give a shit. It just seems as if that's all past tense.

I kinda dont care about that except that it was probably what made them such an intensely awesome band back in the day. i mean, if having no principles made their music better, I'd be all for it, but that clearly isnt the case with this band.

so there's no strange correllation between the decline of their artistic output and the ever-increasing volume of crap they are trying to sell us?

I am pretty skeptical about that. Well, no. There is probably a correlation if by decline you mean there is less music than there had been in the past. The 10club has to keep coming up with stuff, which is easier when there is new music. If you mean the alleged artistic decline in quality, than no. I don't think there is correlation at all.

i'm not even sure if my question was serious. who am i to pretend that i know what's going on inside the band or inside the member's head but i'd say that PJ's "anti-greed" stance ended in 2006/07 and looking at the format they chose for Backspacer (short, anthemic/radio-friendly pop-oriented songs verging on the adult-contemporary) that something just changed in how they care about the way they are represented, sold and percieved. i'm wondering if it was a concerted decision or if they just let the 10C exploit the band's image as they pleased - and i'm also wondering how the '95 Eddie Vedder would have acted had they not be as succesful as they were. i mean, they could damn well afford to be "low-profile" then, given the fact that they were the biggest band in the world.

stip wrote:In fact, I am reasonably confident that if the 10c decided to stop producing new merchandise many people (maybe not the same ones but I'm sure there's some overlap) would be arguing that the lack of merchandise was also a sign that pearl jam has stopped caring about their music, the band was breaking up, pearl jam was in decline, etc.

I think you're reaching here.

As I said upthread, my impression is that this isn't really about the dog collar. The collar itself is fine, whatever. If the band mainly sold CDs, bootlegs and a selection of t-shirts, I hardly think anyone could begrudge them also selling something silly like a dog collar.

EDIT: I've tried twice now to write a more detailed response here and it isn't coming together, perhaps I might try again when it isn't 8am and I'm actually awake. In the event that I don't, the gist was: you don't need to be Fugazi, just don't be KISS. Really good bands don't operate that way.

mastaflatch wrote:

stip wrote:

mastaflatch wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

surfndestroy wrote: and i'm also wondering how the '95 Eddie Vedder would have acted had they not be as succesful as they were. i mean, they could damn well afford to be "low-profile" then, given the fact that they were the biggest band in the world.

Boycotting ticketmaster during an era where people would probably sell their organs on the black market in order to get a ticket: also not as brave as Cameron Crowe would have us believe.

I dont think its unreasonable at all to suggest that the various decisions they've made recently about how their band is represented point to a marked change in their music (positive or negative). I'd find it harder to believe there was no correlation. Its all just conjecture, of course, but this is just a fucking internet message board.

I always thought the "10club as a separate entity" theory is a copout. I find it hard to believe at least one of them don't keep an eye on it. They are absolute fools if they don't.

BurtReynolds wrote:I always thought the "10club as a separate entity" theory is a copout. I find it hard to believe at least one of them don't keep an eye on it. They are absolute fools if they don't.

I presume the band have to approve anything that gets sold through 10C. I'm under the impression Jeff's pretty involved with designing a lot of it.

i like most of the things they sell, but they are a little expensive. I would like to see more music merch, singles, vinyls...that stuff..for a band that loves vinyl so much, they dont have enough.

Still the dog collar was stupid, but the mad season reissue is incredible..also the t shirts are great.