BOB vitriol / scape goat thread

[gardenparty]

man, ed's kind of a dick

no wonder he yelled at us in Vancouver

[Citizen Dick]

PJ didn't listen to Brendan O'Brien during No Code. They had him there to record, not much else. They decided to set up and play live in the studio to the point of even having a PA on Eddie's vocals and BoB was forced out of his comfort zone to try and work with their demands.

For Backspacer, PJ went out of their comfort zone to work in Brendan's. And look how cheesy and lame BoB's comfort zone is.

That's the working relationship they need to get back to, the " thanks but we got this " approach. I hope we get a bob thrown out of the room song a la bugs. The last 3 albums haven't really had a weird little experiment track have they? Unless you count help help or you are as one

Now that it's clear to everyone that Lightning Bolt is a total failure, I think it's time for drastic changes in this band. They need to get rid of Cameron and McCready and replace them by harmless and Strat, then have McParadigm take care of everything related to sound, production and fine liquors. Spenno will be in charge of vault/bootlegs/live releases, Thejambi will do the artwork (with a little help from Sgt. Crackpot for the booklet pictures) and NIGHTMAREBLACK0206 WILL WRITE THE PRESS RELEASES. B will be running the 10C so we can still have something to bitch about.

And Kevin Davis will be the main guy in another successful band so that we can all keep complaining... "Why can't our guys be like THAT?"

[Tuolumne]

I've been learnin up on my BoB recently, with all the stuff that's available in PJ20, and with Bruce and Gaslight Anthem. It seems artists almost universally praise him and his talent, but he also comes off as a bit of an arrogant ass, known for his brutal honesty. He seems to have no problem telling an artist "that sucks", however, his opinion is not always right.

I love studying group dynamics and he brings a really interesting element to the band. I think without him, the band is often too polite to each other. This does not seem to me a band that will confront each other with brutal honesty. But that might also be a reason they've stayed together so long. I think his input was missed on Binaural and Riot Acts especially when it didn't seem they could tell each other that a certain song wasn't deserving of time. Why else choose something like Gods' Dice over Sad? BoB would have kicked ass, not worried about feelings, and would have made sure Sad was in there.

On the other hand, when reading up on him, I can clearly see he doesn't really like No Code (w/ the exception being Off He Goes) or Vitalogy (exception being Betterman). In fact, the RS interview he really pisses on Vitalogy in a backhanded way. He never would have done it that way? To me, however painful a process Vitalogy was for him was worth it, cause we got their best work right there. For him to dismiss that means that making him happy doesn't need to be the priority.

With other artists I've also seen him be really dismissive when the "arty" side rears it's head, he seems to be a very linear thinking guy and not patient with a guy who needs to develop lyrics and melodies. He just wants to cut it and move on, and I don't think he's entirely sympathetic to the sometimes difficult process it might take to create. A great example is with Vs and how Ed didn't like that facility, I don't think BoB understood that it was hard for Ed to create there. He also sort of rips on No Code in the PJ20 book as saying they made a record that wasn't thinking of the audience. I think he appreciates the "inviting" side of art moreso than the solitary side.

It's very hard to tell sometimes if he's happy or not with a recording. It's hard to tell with this most recent interview, as I suspect he's really pleased with some but maybe frustrated with the longer stuff (?). But in the end, how a producer or artist feels is very subjective. Stone also didn't seem to like Vitalogy and No Code at the time of their release. Successful group dynamics suggest bringing the best out of everyone, but it doesn't always completely satisfy everyone in the group.

[nomorecrackpipes]

Since info re: PJ recording sessions is scant, are there other BoB lengthy interviews that we can piece together a more complete profile of his producing with other bands?

The band members absolutely do not criticize one another ever in public, even the past drummers, so I welcome BoB being a studio antagonizer. I, too, am pleased that in the interview he comes off as annoyed and non-committal about the finished product.

[stupidmop]

I tried to find a backspacer interview to compare to and all i found was this which does sound more positive to me but that might just be because the album was already out and he was able to talk more.

[MemoFromTurner]

I've been learnin up on my BoB recently, with all the stuff that's available in PJ20, and with Bruce and Gaslight Anthem. It seems artists almost universally praise him and his talent, but he also comes off as a bit of an arrogant ass, known for his brutal honesty. He seems to have no problem telling an artist "that sucks", however, his opinion is not always right.

I love studying group dynamics and he brings a really interesting element to the band. I think without him, the band is often too polite to each other. This does not seem to me a band that will confront each other with brutal honesty. But that might also be a reason they've stayed together so long. I think his input was missed on Binaural and Riot Acts especially when it didn't seem they could tell each other that a certain song wasn't deserving of time. Why else choose something like Gods' Dice over Sad? BoB would have kicked ass, not worried about feelings, and would have made sure Sad was in there.

On the other hand, when reading up on him, I can clearly see he doesn't really like No Code (w/ the exception being Off He Goes) or Vitalogy (exception being Betterman). In fact, the RS interview he really pisses on Vitalogy in a backhanded way. He never would have done it that way? To me, however painful a process Vitalogy was for him was worth it, cause we got their best work right there. For him to dismiss that means that making him happy doesn't need to be the priority.

With other artists I've also seen him be really dismissive when the "arty" side rears it's head, he seems to be a very linear thinking guy and not patient with a guy who needs to develop lyrics and melodies. He just wants to cut it and move on, and I don't think he's entirely sympathetic to the sometimes difficult process it might take to create. A great example is with Vs and how Ed didn't like that facility, I don't think BoB understood that it was hard for Ed to create there. He also sort of rips on No Code in the PJ20 book as saying they made a record that wasn't thinking of the audience. I think he appreciates the "inviting" side of art moreso than the solitary side.

It's very hard to tell sometimes if he's happy or not with a recording. It's hard to tell with this most recent interview, as I suspect he's really pleased with some but maybe frustrated with the longer stuff (?). But in the end, how a producer or artist feels is very subjective. Stone also didn't seem to like Vitalogy and No Code at the time of their release. Successful group dynamics suggest bringing the best out of everyone, but it doesn't always completely satisfy everyone in the group.

If what you say is gospel than BOB isn't much of a producer. If the band's best work has been created DESPITE O'Brien's influence than that is concerning. It makes sense. Pearl Jam was pretty close to the edge when recording Vitalogy and No Code and BOB would have had trouble getting them to approach the sessions as a group or as rock star pros churning out product. I think a lot of what came out of Vitalogy and No Code was the band at their creative best not wanting to be "Pearl Jam" and it propelled them to a pure artistic place.

We may get something good out of Lightning Bolt. In the RS interview, O'Brien seemed annoyed at the long break and unable to articulate the more spacey, atmospheric music. Admittedly, it's hard to tell if he's being dismissive or coy. I hope it means the group realized they were making Backspacer II and shut it down.

[harmless]

I love studying group dynamics and he brings a really interesting element to the band. I think without him, the band is often too polite to each other. This does not seem to me a band that will confront each other with brutal honesty. But that might also be a reason they've stayed together so long. I think his input was missed on Binaural and Riot Acts especially when it didn't seem they could tell each other that a certain song wasn't deserving of time. Why else choose something like Gods' Dice over Sad? BoB would have kicked ass, not worried about feelings, and would have made sure Sad was in there.

"Brendan O'Brien would've liked the same songs I like." How do you know that? (God's Dice is awesome.)

[Mine]

I think his input was missed on Binaural and Riot Acts especially when it didn't seem they could tell each other that a certain song wasn't deserving of time. Why else choose something like Gods' Dice over Sad?

royalties

wasn't he involved in the final choice of the songs though?

[EJ]

I hope it means the group realized they were making Backspacer II and shut it down.

I favor this theory.

[Tuolumne]

I've been learnin up on my BoB recently, with all the stuff that's available in PJ20, and with Bruce and Gaslight Anthem. It seems artists almost universally praise him and his talent, but he also comes off as a bit of an arrogant ass, known for his brutal honesty. He seems to have no problem telling an artist "that sucks", however, his opinion is not always right.

I love studying group dynamics and he brings a really interesting element to the band. I think without him, the band is often too polite to each other. This does not seem to me a band that will confront each other with brutal honesty. But that might also be a reason they've stayed together so long. I think his input was missed on Binaural and Riot Acts especially when it didn't seem they could tell each other that a certain song wasn't deserving of time. Why else choose something like Gods' Dice over Sad? BoB would have kicked ass, not worried about feelings, and would have made sure Sad was in there.

On the other hand, when reading up on him, I can clearly see he doesn't really like No Code (w/ the exception being Off He Goes) or Vitalogy (exception being Betterman). In fact, the RS interview he really pisses on Vitalogy in a backhanded way. He never would have done it that way? To me, however painful a process Vitalogy was for him was worth it, cause we got their best work right there. For him to dismiss that means that making him happy doesn't need to be the priority.

With other artists I've also seen him be really dismissive when the "arty" side rears it's head, he seems to be a very linear thinking guy and not patient with a guy who needs to develop lyrics and melodies. He just wants to cut it and move on, and I don't think he's entirely sympathetic to the sometimes difficult process it might take to create. A great example is with Vs and how Ed didn't like that facility, I don't think BoB understood that it was hard for Ed to create there. He also sort of rips on No Code in the PJ20 book as saying they made a record that wasn't thinking of the audience. I think he appreciates the "inviting" side of art moreso than the solitary side.

It's very hard to tell sometimes if he's happy or not with a recording. It's hard to tell with this most recent interview, as I suspect he's really pleased with some but maybe frustrated with the longer stuff (?). But in the end, how a producer or artist feels is very subjective. Stone also didn't seem to like Vitalogy and No Code at the time of their release. Successful group dynamics suggest bringing the best out of everyone, but it doesn't always completely satisfy everyone in the group.

If what you say is gospel than BOB isn't much of a producer. If the band's best work has been created DESPITE O'Brien's influence than that is concerning. It makes sense. Pearl Jam was pretty close to the edge when recording Vitalogy and No Code and BOB would have had trouble getting them to approach the sessions as a group or as rock star pros churning out product. I think a lot of what came out of Vitalogy and No Code was the band at their creative best not wanting to be "Pearl Jam" and it propelled them to a pure artistic place.

We may get something good out of Lightning Bolt. In the RS interview, O'Brien seemed annoyed at the long break and unable to articulate the more spacey, atmospheric music. Admittedly, it's hard to tell if he's being dismissive or coy. I hope it means the group realized they were making Backspacer II and shut it down.

Why is that concerning? It's a team effort situation, one individual's vision does not prevail. On Vitalogy and No Code it was Ed's overpowering vision that won out. However, the albums greatly benefitted from the others. It's not zero sum. If Ed had made Vitalogy by himself and without BoB, it may very well (likely) have stunk. He probably would have taken it to something very underproduced. Instead, we got something that was close to ehat Ed proabably had in his head, but also had that professional sheen that BoB does well to create something bigger than the sum of the parts.

It's the group dynamics, the push and pull that brings something out that no one individual can come up with by himself that I am most interested. Sometimes group dynamics can take a bad turn where their talents cancel each other out, but sometimes they talents feed off of each other.

I think when there is a little bit of that tension that can mean a breakthrough is happening between people resulting in something neither of them could come up with themselves. The result can be a great product but unhappy people.

[MemoFromTurner]

I've been learnin up on my BoB recently, with all the stuff that's available in PJ20, and with Bruce and Gaslight Anthem. It seems artists almost universally praise him and his talent, but he also comes off as a bit of an arrogant ass, known for his brutal honesty. He seems to have no problem telling an artist "that sucks", however, his opinion is not always right.

I love studying group dynamics and he brings a really interesting element to the band. I think without him, the band is often too polite to each other. This does not seem to me a band that will confront each other with brutal honesty. But that might also be a reason they've stayed together so long. I think his input was missed on Binaural and Riot Acts especially when it didn't seem they could tell each other that a certain song wasn't deserving of time. Why else choose something like Gods' Dice over Sad? BoB would have kicked ass, not worried about feelings, and would have made sure Sad was in there.

On the other hand, when reading up on him, I can clearly see he doesn't really like No Code (w/ the exception being Off He Goes) or Vitalogy (exception being Betterman). In fact, the RS interview he really pisses on Vitalogy in a backhanded way. He never would have done it that way? To me, however painful a process Vitalogy was for him was worth it, cause we got their best work right there. For him to dismiss that means that making him happy doesn't need to be the priority.

With other artists I've also seen him be really dismissive when the "arty" side rears it's head, he seems to be a very linear thinking guy and not patient with a guy who needs to develop lyrics and melodies. He just wants to cut it and move on, and I don't think he's entirely sympathetic to the sometimes difficult process it might take to create. A great example is with Vs and how Ed didn't like that facility, I don't think BoB understood that it was hard for Ed to create there. He also sort of rips on No Code in the PJ20 book as saying they made a record that wasn't thinking of the audience. I think he appreciates the "inviting" side of art moreso than the solitary side.

It's very hard to tell sometimes if he's happy or not with a recording. It's hard to tell with this most recent interview, as I suspect he's really pleased with some but maybe frustrated with the longer stuff (?). But in the end, how a producer or artist feels is very subjective. Stone also didn't seem to like Vitalogy and No Code at the time of their release. Successful group dynamics suggest bringing the best out of everyone, but it doesn't always completely satisfy everyone in the group.

If what you say is gospel than BOB isn't much of a producer. If the band's best work has been created DESPITE O'Brien's influence than that is concerning. It makes sense. Pearl Jam was pretty close to the edge when recording Vitalogy and No Code and BOB would have had trouble getting them to approach the sessions as a group or as rock star pros churning out product. I think a lot of what came out of Vitalogy and No Code was the band at their creative best not wanting to be "Pearl Jam" and it propelled them to a pure artistic place.

We may get something good out of Lightning Bolt. In the RS interview, O'Brien seemed annoyed at the long break and unable to articulate the more spacey, atmospheric music. Admittedly, it's hard to tell if he's being dismissive or coy. I hope it means the group realized they were making Backspacer II and shut it down.

Why is that concerning? It's a team effort situation, one individual's vision does not prevail. On Vitalogy and No Code it was Ed's overpowering vision that won out. However, the albums greatly benefitted from the others. It's not zero sum. If Ed had made Vitalogy by himself and without BoB, it may very well (likely) have stunk. He probably would have taken it to something very underproduced. Instead, we got something that was close to ehat Ed proabably had in his head, but also had that professional sheen that BoB does well to create something bigger than the sum of the parts.

It's the group dynamics, the push and pull that brings something out that no one individual can come up with by himself that I am most interested. Sometimes group dynamics can take a bad turn where their talents cancel each other out, but sometimes they talents feed off of each other.

I think when there is a little bit of that tension that can mean a breakthrough is happening between people resulting in something neither of them could come up with themselves. The result can be a great product but unhappy people.

Concerning because the band seems simpatico these days and nothing good happens when a band is getting along. (I'm only half kidding). Concerning because Vitalogy and No Code succeeded because the band, or Ed, wasn't listening to BOB and the producer felt estranged by the process. O'Brien didn't particularly like the results. The results were the band's creative peak. If less BOB means better product than we're not currently in a good era. My suggestion is that if O'Brien needs to be part of the creative process he needs to go write a song for Train.

Most likely BOB didn't say much in the RS interview because it would be speaking out of turn to get into details. But I'll read between the lines anyway and say BOB's not wearing Lightning Bolt like a sweater he knit and that is a positive sign. And another positive sign is it took so long to record so hopefully they were finally able to hose off the sugarcoat of Backspacer.

[Tuolumne]

I see your point, I feel like we are agreeing here although it may not seem like it. But I think group dynamics work in a thousand different ways. There's a really cool Kim Thayil quote somewhere where he breaks it down, something to the effect of: there are X number of relationships within a band - the singer and the drummer, the drummer and the guitarist, the bassist and the singer, the bassist and the guitarist, the guitarist and the drummer ,etc, etc and a band is about exploring each one.

That's awesome and to me makes it worth sticking with a band for many many years to see how all of that plays out.

You might be right about the RS interview, they probably just want to be careful in rolling out info on the album.

I also found it interesting what he says about mixing up in Seattle. Were they not altogether mixing during Backspacer?

[bodysnatcher]

I, too, am pleased that in the interview he comes off as annoyed and non-committal about the finished product.

Same. If he didn't like Vitalogy and No Code, and was overly joyful with how Backspacer turned out... then the fact he came off a little dissatisfied with Lightning Bolt is promising. But then again, he may have just been playing coy.

[Tuolumne]

I think Yield was an album that was loved by everyone in the band almost universally, including BoB.

The lesson to me here is that it can go alot of different ways. Hard to really read into it.

[digster]

He seemed more annoyed or frustrated (and this is with reading into it a little bit) with the time it took to make the record, rather than seemingly anything about the record itself. I'm interested in this idea that they saw what they were doing two years ago and decided to press pause, but according to O'Brien those songs are on the record also. It's not like they were cast aside.

[digster]

I think Yield was an album that was loved by everyone in the band almost universally, including BoB.

The lesson to me here is that it can go alot of different ways. Hard to really read into it.

Well, there's also the fact that they're the only people that can't look at the records merely as fans, but as it's creators, and the process of making the record will probably color their viewpoint on it. For example, no one in the band seems particularly fond of Binaural, but I'd be willing to bet that the memory of making that record (and it sounds like it was a tough one for the band personally and professionally) colors their feelings on the record itself. It's the opposite for Yield which was, by all accounts, a good time in the studio for the band.

[harmless]

He seemed more annoyed or frustrated (and this is with reading into it a little bit) with the time it took to make the record, rather than seemingly anything about the record itself. I'm interested in this idea that they saw what they were doing two years ago and decided to press pause, but according to O'Brien those songs are on the record also. It's not like they were cast aside.

My thought is that possibly we have a few Backspacer-esque songs recorded before, but that wasn't *all* they wanted the album to be, so they called it off while they figured out what else they wanted from it. It would be OK to get an album with dark and light tones on it, imo.

[Thejambi]

I think Yield was an album that was loved by everyone in the band almost universally, including BoB.

The lesson to me here is that it can go alot of different ways. Hard to really read into it.

Yield was a pretty good blend of what pearl jam made up until that point. It was fairly accessible so I'm sure BOB was thrilled about that.

[digster]

My thought is that possibly we have a few Backspacer-esque songs recorded before, but that wasn't *all* they wanted the album to be, so they called it off while they figured out what else they wanted from it. It would be OK to get an album with dark and light tones on it, imo.

I'm really fine with whatever tones they want, but my only thing would be that whatever rut they got into in terms of songwriting for Backspacer isn't one I'd personally want them to continue to explore.

[Tuolumne]

He seemed more annoyed or frustrated (and this is with reading into it a little bit) with the time it took to make the record, rather than seemingly anything about the record itself. I'm interested in this idea that they saw what they were doing two years ago and decided to press pause, but according to O'Brien those songs are on the record also. It's not like they were cast aside.

My thought is that possibly we have a few Backspacer-esque songs recorded before, but that wasn't *all* they wanted the album to be, so they called it off while they figured out what else they wanted from it. It would be OK to get an album with dark and light tones on it, imo.

I can't think that with 5 songwriters in the band and with all those other projects that there was any shortage of material they wanted to record w/ BoB. I think they're well past the 'let's record everything we have' and make the rest b-sides and rarities. When a band is 10 albums in, they want to be very specific about what they want to spend their time on. They've already touched upon a load of stuff up until this point in their careers. You're right in that they may have just wanted to figure it all out prior to taking anything to BoB. They had that session in early 2012 and it took them a year before going back in w/ BoB. But I think Ed's injury and the Soundgarden album had alot to do with why it took even a little longer.