Red Mosquito

And note that I said "arguing opinions isn't worth much" and not "talk about our opinions and preferences" which is why I didn't think it was worth it.

Stip wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I'm not trying to be a brat or whatever, but can someone explain to me what makes Aye Davanita (and Bugs, for that matter) any less of a song than Last Exit (or Satan's Bed, for that matter)?

I'll give you Pry, To only because it's a fragment. I'll disagree, but I'll still give it to you without a fight. Of course, Stupid Mop is it's own thing. I understand the reluctance to call that a song or whatever.

Well Aye Davanita is basically an instrumental. If pearl jam wrote more of them, or more aggressively incorporated them into their albums, I'd be more inclined to think of it as a song. Instead it feels more like a long link or an intermission.

Okay, I get the intermission sort of feel. And I don't disagree necessarily. But I still don't see why that makes it less of a song. Is it just because the only vocals are the words "Aye Davanita"? Because if that's the only reason we're declassifying it's "song" status, I have to take issue with that.

Instrumental songs are still songs. And Aye Davanita sounds like a fully realized instrumental song.

Even as a stand alone song, I love Aye Davanita.

I listen to Aye Davanita as a stand alone a lot. I've also been know to throw it on mixes and playlists.

Gods' Die wrote:

Stip wrote:

Gods' Die wrote:

Stip wrote:

Gods' Die wrote:

Stip wrote:the only one I would actively seek out is Bugs. Aye Davanita is a nice little instrumental but I don't usually feel the need to hear it. Pry. To is not an inappropriate introduction to Corduroy, although it isn't necessary either. I never want to listen to stupid mop, but I can see how it fits and what they wanted to do with it. and on occasion I can see why Angus has the appreciation for it that he does. It came on a random shuffle the other day and when you go into it fresh it can be powerful.


Plus I don't really think of stupid mop as a song. So the fact that I don't enjoy it doesn't matter as much. And it's at the end of the album so I can ignore it. I can always stop no code at present tense but it feels like cheating in a way skipping stupid mop doesn't. It's also 3 songs, where stupid mop is just one track (albeit a long one)

Oy.

besides trying to be dismissive without actually having to make a point, what are you actually disagreeing with here?

Exasperated would be closer to the mood of the response than dismissive. And I know arguing opinions isn't worth much so I just said "Oy." I personally think it's ridiculous the way you dismiss the shit on Vitalogy and will write off No Code because of what I see as the exact same issues. They're all songs, not particularly worth much, and I'm Open and Mankind don't seem like they're supposed to be any more canonical than Bugs or Pry, To. So how those 2 detract from your listening experience and Stupid Mop and the like don't is some strange bit of psychology that doesn't stand in my way of loving what came before on No Code.

But like I said it's opinions and preferences, therefore I didn't think it was worth it, as well as you also mentioning you enjoyed No Code regardless.

aren't we here to talk about our opinions and preferences? Whether or not it was your intention, comments like yours are dismissive. When people write something directed at you it is respectful to respond. If you have nothing to add then something like fair enough is certainly preferable to oy, which indicates that 'I disagree, find your opinion foolish, and don't deem it worth my time to respond to you.'

TL,DR is also a pet peeve of mine.

I explained that my intention wasn't to be dismissive and went on to explain myself. I'd have no problem with someone saying "Oy." to me so I was trying to use the golden rule.

And comments like mine? Or that particular comment? Because I feel as though I'm pretty thoughtful and respectful, even if I happen to disagree.

Normally you are. I was responding to something that usually annoys me, and your post just happened to be what set it off. I don't normally think you're disrespectful or anything, and perhaps it was not your intention here.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Stip wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I'm not trying to be a brat or whatever, but can someone explain to me what makes Aye Davanita (and Bugs, for that matter) any less of a song than Last Exit (or Satan's Bed, for that matter)?

I'll give you Pry, To only because it's a fragment. I'll disagree, but I'll still give it to you without a fight. Of course, Stupid Mop is it's own thing. I understand the reluctance to call that a song or whatever.

Well Aye Davanita is basically an instrumental. If pearl jam wrote more of them, or more aggressively incorporated them into their albums, I'd be more inclined to think of it as a song. Instead it feels more like a long link or an intermission.

Okay, I get the intermission sort of feel. And I don't disagree necessarily. But I still don't see why that makes it less of a song. Is it just because the only vocals are the words "Aye Davanita"? Because if that's the only reason we're declassifying it's "song" status, I have to take issue with that.

Instrumental songs are still songs. And Aye Davanita sounds like a fully realized instrumental song.

It does for sure, but instrumentals themselves are outliers for the band, so I tend to think of them that way

Stip wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Stip wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I'm not trying to be a brat or whatever, but can someone explain to me what makes Aye Davanita (and Bugs, for that matter) any less of a song than Last Exit (or Satan's Bed, for that matter)?

I'll give you Pry, To only because it's a fragment. I'll disagree, but I'll still give it to you without a fight. Of course, Stupid Mop is it's own thing. I understand the reluctance to call that a song or whatever.

Well Aye Davanita is basically an instrumental. If pearl jam wrote more of them, or more aggressively incorporated them into their albums, I'd be more inclined to think of it as a song. Instead it feels more like a long link or an intermission.

Okay, I get the intermission sort of feel. And I don't disagree necessarily. But I still don't see why that makes it less of a song. Is it just because the only vocals are the words "Aye Davanita"? Because if that's the only reason we're declassifying it's "song" status, I have to take issue with that.

Instrumental songs are still songs. And Aye Davanita sounds like a fully realized instrumental song.

It does for sure, but instrumentals themselves are outliers for the band, so I tend to think of them that way

So you're viewing as an experiment in the context of Pearl Jam, not in the context of songwriting in general? That makes sense. I can see that. I'm just not making that distinction.

Do you feel the same way about Soon Forget? Since ukulele songs are outliers in the Pearl Jam catalog? Do you think of Soon Forget as a proper song?

durdencommatyler wrote:

Stip wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Stip wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I'm not trying to be a brat or whatever, but can someone explain to me what makes Aye Davanita (and Bugs, for that matter) any less of a song than Last Exit (or Satan's Bed, for that matter)?

I'll give you Pry, To only because it's a fragment. I'll disagree, but I'll still give it to you without a fight. Of course, Stupid Mop is it's own thing. I understand the reluctance to call that a song or whatever.

Well Aye Davanita is basically an instrumental. If pearl jam wrote more of them, or more aggressively incorporated them into their albums, I'd be more inclined to think of it as a song. Instead it feels more like a long link or an intermission.

Okay, I get the intermission sort of feel. And I don't disagree necessarily. But I still don't see why that makes it less of a song. Is it just because the only vocals are the words "Aye Davanita"? Because if that's the only reason we're declassifying it's "song" status, I have to take issue with that.

Instrumental songs are still songs. And Aye Davanita sounds like a fully realized instrumental song.

It does for sure, but instrumentals themselves are outliers for the band, so I tend to think of them that way

So you're viewing as an experiment in the context of Pearl Jam, not in the context of songwriting in general? That makes sense. I can see that. I'm just not making that distinction.

Do you feel the same way about Soon Forget? Since ukulele songs are outliers in the Pearl Jam catalog? Do you think of Soon Forget as a proper song?

I do.Uke songs are outliers but it's otherwise a song telling a story, typical verse/chorus structure, etc. Just an odd guitar. It represents a departure from past songs, but it's still a 'song'. the fact that eddie started playing it almost right after it was written at every other show also really helps ground it as a song for me.

Stip wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Stip wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Stip wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I'm not trying to be a brat or whatever, but can someone explain to me what makes Aye Davanita (and Bugs, for that matter) any less of a song than Last Exit (or Satan's Bed, for that matter)?

I'll give you Pry, To only because it's a fragment. I'll disagree, but I'll still give it to you without a fight. Of course, Stupid Mop is it's own thing. I understand the reluctance to call that a song or whatever.

Well Aye Davanita is basically an instrumental. If pearl jam wrote more of them, or more aggressively incorporated them into their albums, I'd be more inclined to think of it as a song. Instead it feels more like a long link or an intermission.

Okay, I get the intermission sort of feel. And I don't disagree necessarily. But I still don't see why that makes it less of a song. Is it just because the only vocals are the words "Aye Davanita"? Because if that's the only reason we're declassifying it's "song" status, I have to take issue with that.

Instrumental songs are still songs. And Aye Davanita sounds like a fully realized instrumental song.

It does for sure, but instrumentals themselves are outliers for the band, so I tend to think of them that way

So you're viewing as an experiment in the context of Pearl Jam, not in the context of songwriting in general? That makes sense. I can see that. I'm just not making that distinction.

Do you feel the same way about Soon Forget? Since ukulele songs are outliers in the Pearl Jam catalog? Do you think of Soon Forget as a proper song?

I do.Uke songs are outliers but it's otherwise a song telling a story, typical verse/chorus structure, etc. Just an odd guitar. It represents a departure from past songs, but it's still a 'song'. the fact that eddie started playing it almost right after it was written at every other show also really helps ground it as a song for me.

Okay. Cool. I don't really agree with your definition of song per se, but I understand your definition and it'll help me better understand your posts regarding this kind of thing.

LAL alert! After giving this a solid 55 minutes of my time today, despite not being at all in the mood for it, my verdict is in: If it must exist as is (meaning, no axing the crazy spanking girl and keeping Ed and Jack only), "Stupid Mop" should have absolutely been a hidden track, though I would have probably chosen to hide it in a drawer or shoebox rather than at the end of a commercially available compact disc. It just feels too college art-project-ish, like an ostracized young person's transparent attempt to garner attention for himself by sounding disturbing and confrontational. When my wife was in college, a bunch of girls in her graduating class defaced the women's bathroom in the art building with a bunch of graffiti reading, "What is art? Can you define it?"--this kind of reminds me of that. I would probably give the student who submitted this a C-, assuming that he or she probably didn't have the sonic resources that the supposedly biggest band on earth at the time had and therefore managed a pretty impressive feat of audio engineering, despite thinking the project itself is mostly a bunch of drivel. The aforementioned biggest band on earth at the time will receive no such mercies. I have no patience for seven minutes of this crap at this stage in my life.

But the rest of the "weird" tracks have to be there, because they're the fiber of what this album is. In fact, the first thing you hear on "Vitalogy" is just that--a doodle, a snippet of musical nonsense captured candidly on film and exploited for the good of the cause. That little warm-up that precedes "Last Exit," the twenty seconds of bowels-of-hell feedback that separates "Satan's Bed" and "Better Man"**--there are more strange interludes on this album than the tracklist even has time to document. They are very much the chewing gum and sticky putty that hold this album together--or rather, keep it just rickety enough to retain its honest, imperfect character. Perhaps a ten track album of "Last Exit," "Spin the Black Circle," "Not For You," "Tremor Christ," "Nothingman," "Whipping," "Corduroy," "Satan's Bed," "Better Man," and "Immortality," though perfect as a group of individual songs, would have just been too precise, and disingenuous to what we understand as the band state of mind at the time. It needs the disarray.

**When I had this on cassette, sans clear-cut track divisions, I always assumed that this little fragment was an outro to the former rather than an intro to the latter, and seventeen years later it still feels inappropriate to hear it differently. It really does sound like a descent down a staircase to hell.

Yeah, that.

I'd just say Ten and Vitalogy are generally in my Top Two. They flip-flop a bit depending on my mood.

They haven't ever written a better song than "Black." Stone is the man.

Kevin Davis wrote:When my wife was in college, a bunch of girls in her graduating class defaced the women's bathroom in the art building with a bunch of graffiti reading, "What is art? Can you define it?"--this kind of reminds me of that. I would probably give the student who submitted this a C-

First semester college freshman.

Vitalogy probably has the best guitar tones of any record ever.

No Code
Binaural
Vitalogy
Yield
Riot Act
Ten
Vs
Pearl Jam
Backspacer

KD - I think that's why it's the final track.

Binaural
Yield
No Code
Vitalogy
Riot Act
Vs
Ten
Avocado
Backspacer

Rod Serling wrote:Binaural
Yield
No Code
Vitalogy
Riot Act
Vs
Ten
Avocado
Backspacer

Hi thodoks.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

Rod Serling wrote:Binaural
Yield
No Code
Vitalogy
Riot Act
Vs
Ten
Avocado
Backspacer

Hi thodoks.

Figured it out from the edited post in the God thread. Very thodoksian.

Gods' Die wrote:Vitalogy probably has the best guitar tones of any record ever.

yes!

dkfan9 wrote:

Gods' Die wrote:Vitalogy probably has the best guitar tones of any record ever.

yes!

Nah.