Red Mosquito

verb_to_trust wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:I've spent a lot of time around black people

Nevermind then -- you're basically a rapper yourself! I defer going forward.

I'm fairly secure in my judgement on the kanye situation here, yes

I understand the point you think you're making, and admittedly it would make more sense to me if Kanye were some otherwise ill-regarded clown that this particular community just happened to be mysteriously going apeshit over (like if, instead of Kanye, RM suddenly developed a cultish clique around MC Paul Barman), instead of a widely acclaimed artist that was drawing similar praise from all directions, including from his peers within the rap industry. Some sociology grad students should really look into why dorky white guys consistently feel the need to point out that other dorky white guys are listening to rap music wrong -- perhaps they believe it diverts attention from their own dorky whiteness if they pretend like they're on some level of "authenticity awareness" inaccessible to their "naive" peers? I don't know.

I don't think getting a handle on rap music is as elusive an achievement as people like to pretend. The themes are widely universal even when the settings are not, and -- like jazz, rock, blues, etc. -- the skeletal structure and aesthetic trends of the music are parseable to anyone who feels compelled to put the hours in. Yet people consistently take this haughty "if you have to ask, you'll never know" tone when discussing it. It's ridiculous.

I don't see what being white has anything to do with it. Judging people by color is meaningless.

Kevin Davis wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:I've spent a lot of time around black people

Nevermind then -- you're basically a rapper yourself! I defer going forward.

I'm fairly secure in my judgement on the kanye situation here, yes

I understand the point you think you're making, and admittedly it would make more sense to me if Kanye were some otherwise ill-regarded clown that this particular community just happened to be mysteriously going apeshit over (like if, instead of Kanye, RM suddenly developed a cultish clique around MC Paul Barman), instead of a widely acclaimed artist that was drawing similar praise from all directions, including from his peers within the rap industry. Some sociology grad students should really look into why dorky white guys consistently feel the need to point out that other dorky white guys are listening to rap music wrong -- perhaps they believe it diverts attention from their own dorky whiteness if they pretend like they're on some level of "authenticity awareness" inaccessible to their "naive" peers? I don't know.

I don't think getting a handle on rap music is as elusive an achievement as people like to pretend. The themes are widely universal even when the settings are not, and -- like jazz, rock, blues, etc. -- the skeletal structure and aesthetic trends of the music are parseable to anyone who feels compelled to put the hours in. Yet people consistently take this haughty "if you have to ask, you'll never know" tone when discussing it. It's ridiculous.

I think the most difficult part for people to wrap their head around is the braggadocio. Yes, as you said, a lot of themes and aesthetic are accessible if one puts in the listening time, but the psychosocial significance of all the bravado took me a long time to understand, even though I loved the music.

But in any case, I think it's a little odd that Kanye gets singled out for his "arrogance" so much, when, as you said, he's actually way more vulnerable and insecure than dudes like Jay-Z or Dr. Dre. People are reacting to how they perceive his surface character and not examining the themes of music and how they relate to those traits.

I don't think I necessarily buy that Kanye's buffoonery is part of his 'art', but I don't see why so many people seem to view him so negatively because of his public statements and actions. We've been enjoying many rockers' music despite the many moronic things they've said and done over the decades; I don't see why we shouldn't afford Kanye the same latitude.

His public statements and whatever else are totally separate, for me. When I talk about not liking Kanye West, I'm talking about his music being terrible.

I can and have and will continue to also talk about all the other stuff. But that's not what I mean when I say I don't like Kanye West.

verb_to_trust wrote:Do people really hate his music though?

durdencommatyler wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:Do people really hate his music though?

you're just listening to it wrong

Lament wrote:I get asked to do weddings a few times a year, but I always turn it down. I dunno, it just seems like it isn't worth the hassle.

Dancing your ass off at a Matt Lament club night is way better.

How many Kesha songs could I expect to hear at a Matt Lament club night.

If my boss is there, probably one every 90 minutes.

If my boss isn't there, all bets are off.

In other news, a group of 55 year olds shouldn't be putting out albums as good as the new Public Enemy one, guys.

This is easily the best since There's a Poison Goin' On, and maybe even the best since Apocalypse '91.


In the efforts of keeping this post on topic, Chuck D. cites To Pimp a Butterfly, Run the Jewels, and Yeezus as the biggest sonic influences on it.

Im with you, No Sympathy From the Devil is fire.

I know some people are complaining about the album only being like 30 minutes long, but I feel like it benefits from its brevity. PE has a tendency to let their records drag on a tiny bit too long. This one is like a swift punch to the gut.

Aren't they releasing another one this year anyway?

I hadn't heard that, but it's very possible. That's what they did in 2012 with Most of My Heroes Don't Appear on No Stamps and The Evil Empire of Everything.

spike wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:Do people really hate his music though?

you're just listening to it wrong

It's entirely possible. Kevin Davis is a big fan and he's usually right. So...

I think that only Kanye song I've heard that impressed me was Jesus Walks.

The latest Public Enemy is amazing by the way!

Lament wrote:Best guest appearances/posse cuts (that were singles)...

10. Otis
9. Clique
8. American Boy
7. Lift Off
6. FourFiveSeconds
5. U Mad
4. Niggas in Paris
3. Forever
2. Run This Town
1. No Church in the Wild

Guys, I can't believe I left Mercy off of this. Fuuuuuuuuuuuck.

I listened to The College Dropout yesterday. Everything on there was better then what I've heard from Kanye over the past few albums

Everything?

verb_to_trust wrote:Everything?

Mostly everything.......mostly