Red Mosquito

Biggio was a fantastic leadoff hitter. Has to be one of the top 10 ever. I will research that more now I'm curious how he stacks up. But his numbers speak for themselves IMHO.

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

BigRedLedbetter wrote:

MattA75 wrote: And I still don't get Biggio in baseball either...

Seriously? Interested to hear your argument.

Yeah me too. I didn't like Biggio either until I really looked at his career and stats.

Biggio is Derek Jeter without a Yankee uniform, and with versatility.

If you take Don Mattingly and make his best years a little bit better and add five productive years at the end of his career, you get John Olerud.

philpritchard wrote:If you take Don Mattingly and make his best years a little bit better and add five productive years at the end of his career, you get John Olerud.

Also, a helmet.

Mattingly has got to be the only guy to spend a decade with the Yankees and not win a World Series.

BigRedLedbetter wrote:

MattA75 wrote: And I still don't get Biggio in baseball either...

Seriously? Interested to hear your argument.

I just think he was very good for a long period of time, and while that's commendable, it doesn't make someone a hall of famer...I'll get loads of crap for saying this but whatever...Craig Biggio was essentially a better version of Dustin Pedroia...hit a lot of doubles, could hit with some power (he amazingly had his two best HR years at age 38 and 39, imagine that!), was a good to great defender, could steal bases (obviously he was a better/faster baserunner than Pedroia), and was a solid hitter...nothing wrong with any of that but to me, he's just not a hall of famer...

numbers wrote:

philpritchard wrote:If you take Don Mattingly and make his best years a little bit better and add five productive years at the end of his career, you get John Olerud.

Also, a helmet.

He has the most doubles by a right handed hitter, ever. You can say that's because he played forever, but he was good enough to play that long.

Hopefully the baseball writers can get over themselves and vote a Republican player into the Hall someday.

Speaking of Olerud I have mentioned this before but got to see Olerud for a full weekend in Texas in the summer of 1993. Everything was a line drive. Just a boss that year.

4/5 wrote:Hopefully the baseball writers can get over themselves and vote a Republican player into the Hall someday.

Schilling will get in eventually.

MattA75 wrote:

BigRedLedbetter wrote:

MattA75 wrote: And I still don't get Biggio in baseball either...

Seriously? Interested to hear your argument.

I just think he was very good for a long period of time, and while that's commendable, it doesn't make someone a hall of famer...I'll get loads of crap for saying this but whatever...Craig Biggio was essentially a better version of Dustin Pedroia...hit a lot of doubles, could hit with some power (he amazingly had his two best HR years at age 38 and 39, imagine that!), was a good to great defender, could steal bases (obviously he was a better/faster baserunner than Pedroia), and was a solid hitter...nothing wrong with any of that but to me, he's just not a hall of famer...

Considering Dustin Pedroia is probably on a Hall of Fame track right now (or, at least, he's on track to be a legitimate candidate)... I don't think that comparison takes anything away from Biggio.

philpritchard wrote:

MattA75 wrote:

BigRedLedbetter wrote:

MattA75 wrote: And I still don't get Biggio in baseball either...

Seriously? Interested to hear your argument.

I just think he was very good for a long period of time, and while that's commendable, it doesn't make someone a hall of famer...I'll get loads of crap for saying this but whatever...Craig Biggio was essentially a better version of Dustin Pedroia...hit a lot of doubles, could hit with some power (he amazingly had his two best HR years at age 38 and 39, imagine that!), was a good to great defender, could steal bases (obviously he was a better/faster baserunner than Pedroia), and was a solid hitter...nothing wrong with any of that but to me, he's just not a hall of famer...

Considering Dustin Pedroia is probably on a Hall of Fame track right now (or, at least, he's on track to be a legitimate candidate)... I don't think that comparison takes anything away from Biggio.

If he keeps trending downwards like he has for the last 3 seasons he won't be.

numbers wrote:He has the most doubles by a right handed hitter, ever. You can say that's because he played forever, but he was good enough to play that long.

If you look at the rest of the top 10 doubles leaders, his total plate appearances don't really stand out. Everyone who has hit that many doubles did so by playing for a really long time.

numbers wrote:

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

BigRedLedbetter wrote:

MattA75 wrote: And I still don't get Biggio in baseball either...

Seriously? Interested to hear your argument.

Yeah me too. I didn't like Biggio either until I really looked at his career and stats.

Biggio is Derek Jeter without a Yankee uniform, and with versatility.

except Jeter didn't need to hang around for 2 extra seasons just to get to 3,000 hits, Jeter NOT hitting .300 was the albatross to his career (as opposed to Biggio hitting .300 being the albatross to his), Jeter has a higher career WAR, and despite having 3.5 times the number of plate appearances, still hit 80 points higher than Biggio in the postseason...Jeter also doesn't have the weird spikes that Biggio does in his career (as mentioned, Biggio's two best HR years came when he was 38 and 39, AMAZING!)

I mean, put it this way...everyone gives all of the power hitters crap because now their numbers don't mean anything because they were all juiced...doesn't that mean a lot of Biggio's stats (especially his HR numbers) are artificially inflated too

cutuphalfdead wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

MattA75 wrote:

BigRedLedbetter wrote:

MattA75 wrote: And I still don't get Biggio in baseball either...

Seriously? Interested to hear your argument.

I just think he was very good for a long period of time, and while that's commendable, it doesn't make someone a hall of famer...I'll get loads of crap for saying this but whatever...Craig Biggio was essentially a better version of Dustin Pedroia...hit a lot of doubles, could hit with some power (he amazingly had his two best HR years at age 38 and 39, imagine that!), was a good to great defender, could steal bases (obviously he was a better/faster baserunner than Pedroia), and was a solid hitter...nothing wrong with any of that but to me, he's just not a hall of famer...

Considering Dustin Pedroia is probably on a Hall of Fame track right now (or, at least, he's on track to be a legitimate candidate)... I don't think that comparison takes anything away from Biggio.

If he keeps trending downwards like he has for the last 3 seasons he won't be.

Fun fact: Dustin Pedroia has more career rWAR than Don Mattingly. By fWAR, he's about 3.5 behind, so it's likely that he'll pass him this year.

Man, I need to lay off Mattingly.

philpritchard wrote:
Fun fact: Dustin Pedroia has more career rWAR than Don Mattingly. By fWAR, he's about 3.5 behind, so it's likely that he'll pass him this year.

Man, I need to lay off Mattingly.

yeah, you really do

EJ wrote:

philpritchard wrote:
Fun fact: Dustin Pedroia has more career rWAR than Don Mattingly. By fWAR, he's about 3.5 behind, so it's likely that he'll pass him this year.

Man, I need to lay off Mattingly.

yeah, you really do

He's just one of those players where the Hall of Fame support he's gotten bugs me because there's nothing to back it up. It's more about the voters than it is the player.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

MattA75 wrote:

BigRedLedbetter wrote:

MattA75 wrote: And I still don't get Biggio in baseball either...

Seriously? Interested to hear your argument.

I just think he was very good for a long period of time, and while that's commendable, it doesn't make someone a hall of famer...I'll get loads of crap for saying this but whatever...Craig Biggio was essentially a better version of Dustin Pedroia...hit a lot of doubles, could hit with some power (he amazingly had his two best HR years at age 38 and 39, imagine that!), was a good to great defender, could steal bases (obviously he was a better/faster baserunner than Pedroia), and was a solid hitter...nothing wrong with any of that but to me, he's just not a hall of famer...

Considering Dustin Pedroia is probably on a Hall of Fame track right now (or, at least, he's on track to be a legitimate candidate)... I don't think that comparison takes anything away from Biggio.

If he keeps trending downwards like he has for the last 3 seasons he won't be.

even if he recovers and goes on to have another 9 or 10 similar seasons to Biggio, I still wouldn't consider him a hall of famer...and Pedroia has 2 WS rings and an MVP on his side too...

MattA75 wrote:

numbers wrote:

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

BigRedLedbetter wrote:

MattA75 wrote: And I still don't get Biggio in baseball either...

Seriously? Interested to hear your argument.

Yeah me too. I didn't like Biggio either until I really looked at his career and stats.

Biggio is Derek Jeter without a Yankee uniform, and with versatility.

except Jeter didn't need to hang around for 2 extra seasons just to get to 3,000 hits, Jeter NOT hitting .300 was the albatross to his career (as opposed to Biggio hitting .300 being the albatross to his), Jeter has a higher career WAR, and despite having 3.5 times the number of plate appearances, still hit 80 points higher than Biggio in the postseason...Jeter also doesn't have the weird spikes that Biggio does in his career (as mentioned, Biggio's two best HR years came when he was 38 and 39, AMAZING!)

I mean, put it this way...everyone gives all of the power hitters crap because now their numbers don't mean anything because they were all juiced...doesn't that mean a lot of Biggio's stats (especially his HR numbers) are artificially inflated too

It would mean that Jeter's are, too. You can't just pick and choose whose numbers are real.

I could easily make the same argument about Jeter, given how, at the age of 35, he reversed the previous two years of decline to put up his best overall season in a decade, complete with a 61% increase in homeruns and a 24 point boost in ISO the previous.

Or I could explain Biggio's power burst by assuming he started selling out for power those last few years, which would explain the sharp drop in OBP, BABIP, BB% and an increase in FB%.

Assuming someone used steroids is a pretty unfair way of looking at it.