Red Mosquito

harmless wrote:

digster wrote:I don't really get how Black is 'generic', unless we're calling every single slow simple song generic.

Right. But I don't get why "Sirens" is either, except for a few radio production flourishes that I kind of wish weren't there but I can't get rid of.

I have no idea how Sirens is generic either. Definitely don't think the video version is generic. There's some polish on the studio track, but I find that I don't notice it as much at this point.

Mine wrote:

stupidmop wrote:Ignoring the vocals, black has this laid back dreamy quality in the music during the verses that makes it pretty interesting to me. If you took eds voice away from sirens i dont think theres anything there that grabs me/stands out.

Neither are an excersize in mindblowing originality however.

Yeah but there are a shitload of similar ballads from the late 80's. "E-Ballad" followed a clear pattern it's even named accordingly.

Caveat: I really, really love Black.

But I find it a fairly standard rock ballad transformed by angst, heaviness and minor chords. Make those chords major (happy) ones, take away Ed's mournful rage, reduce the guitars down, and you have something fairly close to "Sirens". I mean, even the "Hear the sirens" part at the beginning is reminiscent of the "mmmmm" intro of Black, and the piano outro of Black could be compared to the piano / xylophone of "Sirens", and the "uh-uh, oh-oh" of "Sirens" could be replaced by the "doo-doo-doo" of Black. All of these are fairly standard ballad structure features designed to tickle the ears of radio listeners.

I have to admit, I actually laughed out loud the first time I watched the video and heard Ed sing the opening 2 lines... I really wish he sung that part in his lower/more natural baritone.

I also kinda cringe during the "but all things change" part when his voice cracks.

harmless wrote:

Mine wrote:

stupidmop wrote:Ignoring the vocals, black has this laid back dreamy quality in the music during the verses that makes it pretty interesting to me. If you took eds voice away from sirens i dont think theres anything there that grabs me/stands out.

Neither are an excersize in mindblowing originality however.

Yeah but there are a shitload of similar ballads from the late 80's. "E-Ballad" followed a clear pattern it's even named accordingly.

Caveat: I really, really love Black.

But I find it a fairly standard rock ballad transformed by angst, heaviness and minor chords. Make those chords major (happy) ones, take away Ed's mournful rage, reduce the guitars down, and you have something fairly close to "Sirens". I mean, even the "Hear the sirens" part at the beginning is reminiscent of the "mmmmm" intro of Black, and the piano outro of Black could be compared to the piano / xylophone of "Sirens", and the "uh-uh, oh-oh" of "Sirens" could be replaced by the "doo-doo-doo" of Black. All of these are fairly standard ballad structure features designed to tickle the ears of radio listeners.

Basically they already wrote the song and had no reason to do it again

Spoiler: show

i'm kidding btw

Would you guys cut the shit

Sirens is fkn AMAZING!

Even the video is fkn good----------

So, what happens today? .

groetjes,
Mirella (it was played on Dutch radio this morning and I hope it will be mentioned in a TV program as well. It depends on the guests)

harmless wrote:

Mine wrote:

stupidmop wrote:Ignoring the vocals, black has this laid back dreamy quality in the music during the verses that makes it pretty interesting to me. If you took eds voice away from sirens i dont think theres anything there that grabs me/stands out.

Neither are an excersize in mindblowing originality however.

Yeah but there are a shitload of similar ballads from the late 80's. "E-Ballad" followed a clear pattern it's even named accordingly.

Caveat: I really, really love Black.

But I find it a fairly standard rock ballad transformed by angst, heaviness and minor chords. Make those chords major (happy) ones, take away Ed's mournful rage, reduce the guitars down, and you have something fairly close to "Sirens". I mean, even the "Hear the sirens" part at the beginning is reminiscent of the "mmmmm" intro of Black, and the piano outro of Black could be compared to the piano / xylophone of "Sirens", and the "uh-uh, oh-oh" of "Sirens" could be replaced by the "doo-doo-doo" of Black. All of these are fairly standard ballad structure features designed to tickle the ears of radio listeners.

Drown the "hear the sirens" intro in reverb and you could convince a lot of people is a Ten outtake.

A ballad in E and minor chords it's songwriting 101 which is generic by definition. The song turned out spectacular by early 90's standards and a lot of this has to do with it's generic qualities.
About Black i like it better live now because Ed's less dramatic delivery doesn't make it sounded as dated as the studio version.

stupidmop wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mine wrote:

stupidmop wrote:Ignoring the vocals, black has this laid back dreamy quality in the music during the verses that makes it pretty interesting to me. If you took eds voice away from sirens i dont think theres anything there that grabs me/stands out.

Neither are an excersize in mindblowing originality however.

Yeah but there are a shitload of similar ballads from the late 80's. "E-Ballad" followed a clear pattern it's even named accordingly.

Caveat: I really, really love Black.

But I find it a fairly standard rock ballad transformed by angst, heaviness and minor chords. Make those chords major (happy) ones, take away Ed's mournful rage, reduce the guitars down, and you have something fairly close to "Sirens". I mean, even the "Hear the sirens" part at the beginning is reminiscent of the "mmmmm" intro of Black, and the piano outro of Black could be compared to the piano / xylophone of "Sirens", and the "uh-uh, oh-oh" of "Sirens" could be replaced by the "doo-doo-doo" of Black. All of these are fairly standard ballad structure features designed to tickle the ears of radio listeners.

Basically they already wrote the song and had no reason to do it again

It's an argument that could contribute to the thesis that both of the songs are generic, because apparently the 80s rock ballad also wrote "Black" so it was already unnecessary.

What I'm saying is, to me 'Black' could be seen as an 80s rock ballad with a 90's "grunge" aesthetic. This song is whatever the influences are (80s-ballad included) with a 2013 "popular" aesthetic. It just depends on whether you mind, or not. I think people are responding to the song's aesthetic rather than the song itself. Or maybe you can't separate the song's "aesthetic" from the song itself, and people are just responding according to their aesthetic taste. But, well, 'Black' and 'Sirens' are cut from the same rock cloth.

What's a rock cloth? I probably don't want to know.

Mirella wrote:So, what happens today?

Best case scenario is the short bus crashes and IlluminEddie dies.

I wish you guys would stop talking about Black.

stupidmop wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mine wrote:

stupidmop wrote:Ignoring the vocals, black has this laid back dreamy quality in the music during the verses that makes it pretty interesting to me. If you took eds voice away from sirens i dont think theres anything there that grabs me/stands out.

Neither are an excersize in mindblowing originality however.

Yeah but there are a shitload of similar ballads from the late 80's. "E-Ballad" followed a clear pattern it's even named accordingly.

Caveat: I really, really love Black.

But I find it a fairly standard rock ballad transformed by angst, heaviness and minor chords. Make those chords major (happy) ones, take away Ed's mournful rage, reduce the guitars down, and you have something fairly close to "Sirens". I mean, even the "Hear the sirens" part at the beginning is reminiscent of the "mmmmm" intro of Black, and the piano outro of Black could be compared to the piano / xylophone of "Sirens", and the "uh-uh, oh-oh" of "Sirens" could be replaced by the "doo-doo-doo" of Black. All of these are fairly standard ballad structure features designed to tickle the ears of radio listeners.

Basically they already wrote the song and had no reason to do it again

Spoiler: show

i'm kidding btw

You know music may as well cease to exist following this logic. At least a good 98% of it.

Mine wrote:

stupidmop wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mine wrote:

stupidmop wrote:Ignoring the vocals, black has this laid back dreamy quality in the music during the verses that makes it pretty interesting to me. If you took eds voice away from sirens i dont think theres anything there that grabs me/stands out.

Neither are an excersize in mindblowing originality however.

Yeah but there are a shitload of similar ballads from the late 80's. "E-Ballad" followed a clear pattern it's even named accordingly.

Caveat: I really, really love Black.

But I find it a fairly standard rock ballad transformed by angst, heaviness and minor chords. Make those chords major (happy) ones, take away Ed's mournful rage, reduce the guitars down, and you have something fairly close to "Sirens". I mean, even the "Hear the sirens" part at the beginning is reminiscent of the "mmmmm" intro of Black, and the piano outro of Black could be compared to the piano / xylophone of "Sirens", and the "uh-uh, oh-oh" of "Sirens" could be replaced by the "doo-doo-doo" of Black. All of these are fairly standard ballad structure features designed to tickle the ears of radio listeners.

Basically they already wrote the song and had no reason to do it again

Spoiler: show

i'm kidding btw

You know music may as well cease to exist following this logic. At least a good 98% of it.

I'm just talking the piss, i don't know nearly enough about music to have a serious discussion about it, and yet i keep jumping in

who had 9/19 in the 1,000 page poll?

EJ wrote:I wish you guys would stop talking about Black.

Im with you on this

BDB wrote:who had 9/19 in the 1,000 page poll?

You think it will get there today?

solace wrote:I also kinda cringe during the "but all things change" part when his voice cracks.

I those lines. Because it's something he rarely does it really draws attention but without it that section would start feeling repetitive.

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

BDB wrote:who had 9/19 in the 1,000 page poll?

You think it will get there today?

judging by yesterday's volume - maybe.
maybe an in depth comparision of Sirens and Nothingman, and how both songs are generic will get us there.

Mine wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mine wrote:

stupidmop wrote:Ignoring the vocals, black has this laid back dreamy quality in the music during the verses that makes it pretty interesting to me. If you took eds voice away from sirens i dont think theres anything there that grabs me/stands out.

Neither are an excersize in mindblowing originality however.

Yeah but there are a shitload of similar ballads from the late 80's. "E-Ballad" followed a clear pattern it's even named accordingly.

Caveat: I really, really love Black.

But I find it a fairly standard rock ballad transformed by angst, heaviness and minor chords. Make those chords major (happy) ones, take away Ed's mournful rage, reduce the guitars down, and you have something fairly close to "Sirens". I mean, even the "Hear the sirens" part at the beginning is reminiscent of the "mmmmm" intro of Black, and the piano outro of Black could be compared to the piano / xylophone of "Sirens", and the "uh-uh, oh-oh" of "Sirens" could be replaced by the "doo-doo-doo" of Black. All of these are fairly standard ballad structure features designed to tickle the ears of radio listeners.

Drown the "hear the sirens" intro in reverb and you could convince a lot of people is a Ten outtake.

A ballad in E and minor chords it's songwriting 101 which is generic by definition. The song turned out spectacular by early 90's standards and a lot of this has to do with it's generic qualities.
About Black i like it better live now because Ed's less dramatic delivery doesn't make it sounded as dated as the studio version.

Actually the first chord in Black is an E7. It only goes to Em in the choruses. The chorus is uplifting because there is a key change. The E7 / A verse implies that it is in A yet when it goes to the verse it switches to the key of Em. That gives it a great light (A) shade (Em) feel and the Mike's solo patterns shift from E major pentatonic to Em pentatonic.

BDB wrote:

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

BDB wrote:who had 9/19 in the 1,000 page poll?

You think it will get there today?

judging by yesterday's volume - maybe.
maybe an in depth comparision of Sirens and Nothingman, and how both songs are generic will get us there.

lets see how it goes

Blenheim Augustine wrote:

solace wrote:I also kinda cringe during the "but all things change" part when his voice cracks.

I those lines. Because it's something he rarely does it really draws attention but without it that section would start feeling repetitive.

I always cringe when singers reach too far beyond their range and strain I guess, it's not just Ed. I hate when Patterson Hood tries to sing falsetto too.