Red Mosquito

Birds in Hell wrote:

McParadigm wrote:We as a nation are like 10 days of protests and some really well-constructed tire fires away from looking like the early days of the Arab Spring.

This should be something everybody should ponder next time they want to take to the streets about some hysterical grievance.

I'm going to take to the streets with champagne when Pat Robertson finally fucking dies.

Spokesperson for the Koch brothers.

"We believe it is possible to keep Americans safe without excluding people who wish to come here to contribute and pursue a better life for their families. The travel ban is the wrong approach and will likely be counterproductive."

So that happened.

McP I really appreciated the post you made a few pages back.

Birds in Hell wrote:

McParadigm wrote:We as a nation are like 10 days of protests and some really well-constructed tire fires away from looking like the early days of the Arab Spring.

This should be something everybody should ponder next time they want to take to the streets about some hysterical grievance.

Can you please elaborate on what makes the grievances currently being protested 'hysterical'? What would be legitimate grievances worthy of taking to the streets?

4/5 wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

McParadigm wrote:We as a nation are like 10 days of protests and some really well-constructed tire fires away from looking like the early days of the Arab Spring.

This should be something everybody should ponder next time they want to take to the streets about some hysterical grievance.

Can you please elaborate on what makes the grievances currently being protested 'hysterical'? What would be legitimate grievances worthy of taking to the streets?

I think the character of the reactions are hysterical, as though the USA is facing some unprecedented internal threat right now.

Birds in Hell wrote:

4/5 wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

McParadigm wrote:We as a nation are like 10 days of protests and some really well-constructed tire fires away from looking like the early days of the Arab Spring.

This should be something everybody should ponder next time they want to take to the streets about some hysterical grievance.

Can you please elaborate on what makes the grievances currently being protested 'hysterical'? What would be legitimate grievances worthy of taking to the streets?

I think the character of the reactions are hysterical, as though the USA is facing some unprecedented internal threat right now.

When in reality this is just hum drum run-of-the mill politics as usual?

I wonder if one could argue that the policies being made by The Leader are hysterical reactions as if the U.S. is facing some unprecedented internal threats that justify such use of power?

Bi_3 wrote: So now we are getting somewhere. Christians in Syria not only face the same civil war and threat of ISIL that Muslims do, but they are also a minority group struggling under religious-based persecution, so they are being prioritized because they have been prevented from applying for refugee status by the majority religion. So while Trump may be dog-whistling on Twitter, the order is actually somewhat reasonable in identifying the most vulnerable populations and helping them first.

I'll put aside for a moment that the majority of individuals dying from internal strife and ISIS in these countries are Muslim, which makes the argument that they shouldn't be offered refugee status hard to swallow, and also putting aside the fact that Trump's EO extended far beyond just those people granted refugee status in the seven impacted countries...

I guess, my question would be, taking in the totality of Trump's rhetoric, policies and approaches, and the way that this EO worked out in theory and practice, do you honestly believe that this isn't meant to target the Muslims from these countries, to keep them out of the United States as best as possible?

This is kind of what I meant before about "tying yourself in knots" trying to turn this EO into something it isn't. If you really want to, you can do it, but to say this EO is intended to help "identifying the most vulnerable populations and helping them first" is really in direct opposition with how its authors framed and sold it. That's the only point I was trying to raise.

This National Review piece is very good: Trump’s Executive Order on Refugees — Separating Fact from Hysteria

Birds in Hell wrote:This National Review piece is very good: Trump’s Executive Order on Refugees — Separating Fact from Hysteria

fair and balanced headline, I expect a cool, detached, disinterested article to follow.

I'll check it out, be back in a few.

The article completely glossed over the incompetent way the EO was initiated. Turning away people with valid Visas was a huge mistake. Chaos was created at the border and in ways that many feel is anti-muslim and unfair. I think the EO properly initiated and executed wouldn't have made much in the way of headlines. As the article says, many of the EO items were defacto US policy for many of the years under Obama.

I still think the law sucks and is unnecessary but grant that every country should be able to maintain it's sovereignty and securing their borders is a huge part of this.

pepperwhiteMFC wrote:

The haste and negligence in communication with airport officials is a huge part of the outrage, but I don't hear enough people bringing that up. Glad it was the focal point in this clip. It needs to be a constantly hammered nail in this discourse.

4/5 wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:This National Review piece is very good: Trump’s Executive Order on Refugees — Separating Fact from Hysteria

fair and balanced headline, I expect a cool, detached, disinterested article to follow.

I'll check it out, be back in a few.

It may well actually be a fine article. There IS, after all, quite a lot of talk going on about something most people have minimal understanding of.

However, there ARE very problematic aspects of this order, as a statement of fact, and the biggest part of the story going forward will be:

1. The disastrous rollout
2. The human drama

washing machine wrote:

pepperwhiteMFC wrote:

The haste and negligence in communication with airport officials is a huge part of the outrage, but I don't hear enough people bringing that up. Glad it was the focal point in this clip. It needs to be a constantly hammered nail in this discourse.

I believe Trump's rhetoric is by design and meant to initiate the chaos, whether the EO's are prudent or not. Hopefully the crowds will react prudently if trouble-makers decide to escalate things into violence. And I feel very patriotic watching the small number of more recent refugees being welcomed at the gates by sign carrying Americans. It gives them a good image of our country upon entry.

Can't disagree with any of that, pepperman.

washing machine wrote:Can't disagree with any of that, pepperman.

Let's impeach the orange bastard before his wife's arsenic finally kills him.

pepperwhiteMFC wrote:

washing machine wrote:Can't disagree with any of that, pepperman.

Let's impeach the orange bastard before his wife's arsenic finally kills him.