Ukraine

[Anders]

If you're reading this, you may know that my sister in law is Ukrainian, and I was the best man at their wedding in Ukraine in 2015. Her family in Ukraine has gone through a lot during the war, and of course it's been tough for my sister in law and my niece as well. Her parents had a nice house, with a beautiful garden. They had geese, grew their own vegetables, and of course a dog and a cat. Now, all that is gone, and they had to flee the Russian occupied land they were living on, after the flood of the river (dam got blown up).They wish to stay in Ukraine, and have moved to the western part of the country. Of course hoping one day to move back to where they are from, on the opposite side of the river from Kherson.

After lots of hard work from my sister in law (she has two full time jobs now, to help her parents), she has finally got them to visit Norway, and they are here for two weeks. I will meet them today.

[96583UP]

god bless, Anders

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[E.H. Ruddock]

good stuff Anders

I wonder how they feel about the idea of just letting Russia have their home to avoid nuclear war?

[tommy]

.

[Anders]

Met them earlier this evening. My mother tried convincing them to stay in Norway, said they could live for free in her house. But they were adamant that they have to get back to Ukraine. They either want to live where they live now, or go back home to their house. But I don’t know how difficult that would be. Probably very difficult.

The father said they have seen terrible things, and that he knows of no war movie, that has shown the kind of scenes they have seen. Especially the flood was awful, and once they finally got in a boat, after a difficult climb to the roof, they could look around, and they saw animals and people floating around. There were some Russians that were shooting at boats, so with that, and everything awful that happened, they felt lucky to survive.

We tried to talk about other things than the war. They found my daughter very charming, and the father and I laughed a lot, despite a difficult language barrier.

[Anders]

good stuff Anders

I wonder how they feel about the idea of just letting Russia have their home to avoid nuclear war?

Their 49 year old son (brother of my sister in law), was just sent to the front. Also a close family friend just arrived at the front.

The mother was worried sick, and cried talking about it.

I didn’t ask the question you had above, but that’s where their mind is at. They hate this war.

[tommy]

good stuff Anders

I wonder how they feel about the idea of just letting Russia have their home to avoid nuclear war?

Their 49 year old son (brother of my sister in law), was just sent to the front. Also a close family friend just arrived at the front.

The mother was worried sick, and cried talking about it.

I didn’t ask the question you had above, but that’s where their mind is at. They hate this war.

It's hard to believe how long it's been dragging on and with no real end in sight. It's nice that you can provide them with a break at least.

[96583UP]

good stuff Anders

I wonder how they feel about the idea of just letting Russia have their home to avoid nuclear war?

suggest trag watch Red Dawn (original) and think about being expelled from his Montana community

[96583UP]

unreal Anders

what hell

glad they are safe

[blueviper]

Man, that's some stuff they have been through the past few years, Anders.

Thank you for keeping us up to date.

I wish them well.

[Stickman]

Taking out a few more of these would make a huge difference in the fight

Ukraine ATACMS Strikes Destroy Long-Range Russian Radar Station Worth $100M

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[96583UP]

and do you plan to watch Red Dawn (original) or no

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[E.H. Ruddock]

good stuff Anders

I wonder how they feel about the idea of just letting Russia have their home to avoid nuclear war?

I'm not sure if this is RM snark or a legitimate question, but I reject the premise that I somehow lack empathy for anyone displaced by this violent invasion and occupation because I hold a concern about the deployment of nuclear weapons due to the potential use of US satellite arrays to guide long-range defensive missiles.

I don’t think you lack empathy, but this scenario put a little more of a human/personal element to it all. I think the disconnect between arguments is the “my country first” when it comes to human safety/rights. And I’m not saying that’s wrong. But i think living through or witnessing a tragedy first hand can alter those beliefs. I’m also very surprised at how far we’ve come in this country that conservatives don’t want to defeat the commie russians at all costs.

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[BurtReynolds]

My basic stance is that Ukraine should be Ukraine and a violent aggressor should be resisted, and arguments that people should surrender just because they have little chance of winning, or that it is too destructive, is bullshit (same with Palestine). This idea that some people trot out that "people should know when they are conquered" is usually an excuse to hide the fact that they really just want them to stop resisting for other reasons. i would never presume to tell people that they should stop fighting for liberation, no matter the situation.

But, in addition to that, is my belief that the west bears a lot of responsibility in antagonizing Russia. The realpolitik view acknowledges that there are powers, regional powers, superpowers, spheres of influence, etc. and NATO never stopped in it's goal of expanding its rule and subjugating Russia. This doesn't justify Russia's invasion obviously, but it does partially explain it.

But on a more fundamental level, I think we should be terrified of a unipolar world, even if it's ruled by the US. Because it's not actually the U.S., but more specifically the U.S. government, which are no friends of the actual people. Same with other western governments. The removal of Russia, China, and Iran would be the catalyst for American government power to turn inward on its people. (in reality I think this inward turn has already started and this will be merely an acceleration.)

So I don't see a good outcome for us either way, which is pretty depressing. But good for Ukraine if they win.

Then there is the nuclear war factor, which I agree is a problem. I don't know who is deluding themselves into thinking this isn't a proxy war against Russia, moving directly into Russian territory. This makes things very dicey. I know what I would think if I were them.

[96583UP]

A lot of agreement with Burt's post

I think the west made a mistake expanding NATO the way it did so close to Russia's border

there were better ways to better ensure mutual security guarantees without developing a 100-ton gorrilla right on their door step

still the initial fault IMO lies with Russia, for being an aggressor

but in the game of global chess, the west should have backed off a little bit given the potential for action-reaction

hindsight 20/20

now it's a race to build the better military industrial complex

[VinylGuy]