The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

[McParadigm]

It's pretty weird that political intrigue these days comes down to "the president has unfollowed Kellyanne Conway on Twitter."

[wease]

B looks kinda like auron from final fantasy 10

Well played

[wease]

Real question: what happens if Flynn decides that he's in legal danger?

What does he know and what how far will he go in revealing it?

He'll spill it all once he's looking at a treason charge.

Holy shit, let's hope so.

[wease]

Real question: what happens if Flynn decides that he's in legal danger?

What does he know and what how far will he go in revealing it?

He'll spill it all once he's looking at a treason charge.

Holy shit, let's hope so.

Actually, couldn't he just go down on the treason charge, then Trump pardon him?

[McParadigm]

Honestly, "We didn't tell Pence until a few days ago" is among the most baffling revelations from today.

[Bi_3]

https://theweek.com/articles/680068/ame ... y-worrying

America's spies anonymously took down Michael Flynn. That is deeply worrying.
Damon Linker
REUTERS/Carlos Barria
February 14, 2017


The United States is much better off without Michael Flynn serving as national security adviser. But no one should be cheering the way he was brought down.

The whole episode is evidence of the precipitous and ongoing collapse of America's democratic institutions — not a sign of their resiliency. Flynn's ouster was a soft coup (or political assassination) engineered by anonymous intelligence community bureaucrats. The results might be salutary, but this isn't the way a liberal democracy is supposed to function.

Unelected intelligence analysts work for the president, not the other way around. Far too many Trump critics appear not to care that these intelligence agents leaked highly sensitive information to the press — mostly because Trump critics are pleased with the result. "Finally," they say, "someone took a stand to expose collusion between the Russians and a senior aide to the president!" It is indeed important that someone took such a stand. But it matters greatly who that someone is and how they take their stand. Members of the unelected, unaccountable intelligence community are not the right someone, especially when they target a senior aide to the president by leaking anonymously to newspapers the content of classified phone intercepts, where the unverified, unsubstantiated information can inflict politically fatal damage almost instantaneously.

The real story here is why are there so many illegal leaks coming out of Washington? Will these leaks be happening as I deal on N.Korea etc?

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 14, 2017

President Trump was roundly mocked among liberals for that tweet. But he is, in many ways, correct. These leaks are an enormous problem. And in a less polarized context, they would be recognized immediately for what they clearly are: an effort to manipulate public opinion for the sake of achieving a desired political outcome. It's weaponized spin.

This doesn't mean the outcome was wrong. I have no interest in defending Flynn, who appears to be an atrocious manager prone to favoring absurd conspiracy theories over more traditional forms of intelligence. He is just about the last person who should be giving the president advice about foreign policy. And for all I know, Flynn did exactly what the anonymous intelligence community leakers allege — promised the Russian ambassador during the transition that the incoming Trump administration would back off on sanctions proposed by the outgoing Obama administration.

But no matter what Flynn did, it is simply not the role of the deep state to target a man working in one of the political branches of the government by dishing to reporters about information it has gathered clandestinely. It is the role of elected members of Congress to conduct public investigations of alleged wrongdoing by public officials.

What if Congress won't act? What if both the Senate and the House of Representatives are held by the same party as the president and members of both chambers are reluctant to cross a newly elected head of the executive branch who enjoys overwhelming approval of his party's voters? In such a situation — our situation — shouldn't we hope the deep state will rise up to act responsibly to take down a member of the administration who may have broken the law?

The answer is an unequivocal no.

In a liberal democracy, how things happen is often as important as what happens. Procedures matter. So do rules and public accountability. The chaotic, dysfunctional Trump White House is placing the entire system under enormous strain. That's bad. But the answer isn't to counter it with equally irregular acts of sabotage — or with a disinformation campaign waged by nameless civil servants toiling away in the surveillance state.

As Eli Lake of Bloomberg News put it in an important article following Flynn's resignation,

Normally intercepts of U.S. officials and citizens are some of the most tightly held government secrets. This is for good reason. Selectively disclosing details of private conversations monitored by the FBI or NSA gives the permanent state the power to destroy reputations from the cloak of anonymity. This is what police states do. [Bloomberg]

Those cheering the deep state torpedoing of Flynn are saying, in effect, that a police state is perfectly fine so long as it helps to bring down Trump.

It is the role of Congress to investigate the president and those who work for him. If Congress resists doing its duty, out of a mixture of self-interest and cowardice, the American people have no choice but to try and hold the government's feet to the fire, demanding action with phone calls, protests, and, ultimately, votes. That is a democratic response to the failure of democracy.

Sitting back and letting shadowy, unaccountable agents of espionage do the job for us simply isn't an acceptable alternative.

Down that path lies the end of democracy in America.

[LoathedVermin72]

Democracy isn't working anyway.

[B]

B looks kinda like auron from final fantasy 10

Well played

Doesn't that dude have hair?

[B]

That shirt is the tits.

Or did you mean Rather's shirt. In that case,

[BurtReynolds]

Democracy isn't working anyway.

just keep voting.

[McParadigm]

They know that Flynn had extra-governmental contact with the Russian ambassador, and they know that he lied about what went on in those talks.

They appear to suspect that he's not alone in the White House.

They communicate this concern that a top official with full security clearance has had inappropriate associations with a foreign power, and may have worked to undermine the impact of sanctions after an election-related espionage incident.

In the weeks that follow, the administration makes no attempt to limit that person's clearance, and shows no signs of addressing the issue in any way. They don't even TELL Pence. Meanwhile, high level intelligence leaders literally feel like they cannot share all available intel...potentially life-and-death stuff...with the fucking president for fear of it getting handed over to the Russians.

Meanwhile, the president...who has seen at least four top aides come under fire for Russian ties...just cannot say enough wonderful things about Putin

-

It wasn't that many pages ago that the question came up: "is passing info to the press part of their job?" And my response was "almost never." That's exactly my answer now, as well.

[Jorge]

Wait so is Conway about to get fired

[BurtReynolds]

Is still don't know what her job is.

[McParadigm]

Wait so is Conway about to get fired

Right? And with Priebus and Spicer rumors getting louder, it may turn into quite a mess.

[McParadigm]

Is still don't know what her job is.

She's been angling for a policy job. Basically, they let her be the media punching bag.

[wease]

That shirt is the tits.

Or did you mean Rather's shirt. In that case,

No. Yours

[McParadigm]

Welp, it's about time for the print media to start getting tomorrow's stories on their websites.

[BurtReynolds]

Pence will make a fine interim president.

[McParadigm]

Pence will make a fine interim president.

I picture that blank stare on his face as he sits in a room surrounded by people who colluded with Trump to keep him unaware of the Flynn story, and wonder what's going on in his head.

[McParadigm]

That, or the "Pence didn't know" leak is meant to allow him to be seen as a legitimate leader after Rrunp is taken down.