Red Mosquito

McParadigm wrote:The worth of impeachment hearings was never about the hope of a senate conviction. It was about exposing publicly the extent to which the administration is willing to abuse power in order to keep power, increasing public awareness of the ways they go about doing that, and keeping them too busy trying to cover up the last transgression to immediately hop into a new scheme. Remember that the Ukraine extortion game didn't come up until the Mueller investigation was finally over and Trump believed that the pressure was off....so why take the pressure off?

Also, I think it's important to reject the (seemingly reasonable) attitude that it ultimately doesn't matter because the Republican Senate won't convict him, or that "nothing matters" because presidential misdeeds repeatedly get exposed but not consequenced. This feels painfully true, but it is a dangerous attitude...especially when it is being echo-chambered by so very many people, often on public platforms.

I believe it is dangerous for two reasons:

1. The endless exposure of wrongdoing has unquestionably been a big part of why this president's polling is the worst on record. When Republicans take major losses in Virginia, Kentucky, and Louisiana even after major White House support pushes, moments like these hearings are a part of the story of why. Our pessimism has the power to unintentionally kill that weapon. Remember how nervous House Democrats were about starting impeachment? Why was that? Because the Republican Senate won't convict, "so it doesn't matter." They internalized voters' weary frustration, and it nearly paralyzed them.

The last thing you want is for the cancer of hopelessness to metastasize in the attitudes of leadership, media, or voters.

2. The conclusion of the "what's the point if they won't convict him" attitude is ultimately that Republicans are the arbiter of whether something matters. Did they react to the terrible thing? No? Then it's decided. Move on.

This is an insane attitude to adopt, in a world where Republicans in office are responding to a voting group who consume propaganda almost exclusively. When you say "The president shot someone on 5th avenue today. Did he lose any Republican votes? No? lol nothing matters," you're saying the shooting doesn't matter because it didn't change anything among those Republicans. They got to decide whether the scandal of their creation was important or not. You gave them that. And the thing is, "does it matter" and "did it change the national political story" are not questions that will (or should) always have the same answer.

"Did it change anything?" That's a question that the current Republican party, by and large, currently controls (although the reverse is also true: if they can't find a way to change their disastrous and generational unpopularity, these are more or less their final days of power).

"Did it matter," though? You decide that. Only you. And your answer reveals who you are.

Peeps wrote:oh by no means did i mean to imply it doesnt matter

bune wrote:

McParadigm wrote:The worth of impeachment hearings was never about the hope of a senate conviction. It was about exposing publicly the extent to which the administration is willing to abuse power in order to keep power, increasing public awareness of the ways they go about doing that, and keeping them too busy trying to cover up the last transgression to immediately hop into a new scheme. Remember that the Ukraine extortion game didn't come up until the Mueller investigation was finally over and Trump believed that the pressure was off....so why take the pressure off?

Also, I think it's important to reject the (seemingly reasonable) attitude that it ultimately doesn't matter because the Republican Senate won't convict him, or that "nothing matters" because presidential misdeeds repeatedly get exposed but not consequenced. This feels painfully true, but it is a dangerous attitude...especially when it is being echo-chambered by so very many people, often on public platforms.

I believe it is dangerous for two reasons:

1. The endless exposure of wrongdoing has unquestionably been a big part of why this president's polling is the worst on record. When Republicans take major losses in Virginia, Kentucky, and Louisiana even after major White House support pushes, moments like these hearings are a part of the story of why. Our pessimism has the power to unintentionally kill that weapon. Remember how nervous House Democrats were about starting impeachment? Why was that? Because the Republican Senate won't convict, "so it doesn't matter." They internalized voters' weary frustration, and it nearly paralyzed them.

The last thing you want is for the cancer of hopelessness to metastasize in the attitudes of leadership, media, or voters.

2. The conclusion of the "what's the point if they won't convict him" attitude is ultimately that Republicans are the arbiter of whether something matters. Did they react to the terrible thing? No? Then it's decided. Move on.

This is an insane attitude to adopt, in a world where Republicans in office are responding to a voting group who consume propaganda almost exclusively. When you say "The president shot someone on 5th avenue today. Did he lose any Republican votes? No? lol nothing matters," you're saying the shooting doesn't matter because it didn't change anything among those Republicans. They got to decide whether the scandal of their creation was important or not. You gave them that. And the thing is, "does it matter" and "did it change the national political story" are not questions that will (or should) always have the same answer.

"Did it change anything?" That's a question that the current Republican party, by and large, currently controls (although the reverse is also true: if they can't find a way to change their disastrous and generational unpopularity, these are more or less their final days of power).

"Did it matter," though? You decide that. Only you. And your answer reveals who you are.

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the fawning they're doing on "independent" voters.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... dependents

tree_ wrote:I haven't been checking in til recently and I'm pretty out of touch with the general populations' views, thinking my own to basically be common sense. Are there seriously people who still think Trump is not crooked as all hell? Seriously? How can anyone take what Gym, Nunes, etc. were arguing during the hearings at ALL SERIOUSLY?! What in the hell is wrong with people? This isn't about party. People shouldn't be allowed to get away with this kind of thing. This is why I stay away. So frustrating.

verb_to_trust wrote:

tree_ wrote:I haven't been checking in til recently and I'm pretty out of touch with the general populations' views, thinking my own to basically be common sense. Are there seriously people who still think Trump is not crooked as all hell? Seriously? How can anyone take what Gym, Nunes, etc. were arguing during the hearings at ALL SERIOUSLY?! What in the hell is wrong with people? This isn't about party. People shouldn't be allowed to get away with this kind of thing. This is why I stay away. So frustrating.

Not only this, but there are a large number of people out there who deny Russian meddling.

tree_ wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

tree_ wrote:I haven't been checking in til recently and I'm pretty out of touch with the general populations' views, thinking my own to basically be common sense. Are there seriously people who still think Trump is not crooked as all hell? Seriously? How can anyone take what Gym, Nunes, etc. were arguing during the hearings at ALL SERIOUSLY?! What in the hell is wrong with people? This isn't about party. People shouldn't be allowed to get away with this kind of thing. This is why I stay away. So frustrating.

Not only this, but there are a large number of people out there who deny Russian meddling.

Russians and their propaganda and meddling have fused with Republican party. Nunes, Gym, etc. made that clear throughout the hearing. This is bad.

verb_to_trust wrote:So in other news I see Lindsey Graham is initiating investigations into the Bidens.