Red Mosquito

stip wrote:

Fuzzcharger wrote:

stip wrote:Okay team, lets get serious for a second.

Isn't this the whole problem with the Pearl Jam online fanbase?

knock it off. I'm doing math

stip wrote:Okay team, lets get serious for a second. I just went back and looked at my pearl jam rankings chart I made ages ago for some thing we were doing two iterations of the board ago (pre backspacer). My current album rankings would look like this (the number is the average score of the songs on that album from 1-5).



Vitalogy: 4.6 (my favorite record of all time. I'm too hard on things)
Ten: 4. 36
Vs: 4.08
Backspacer: 3.87
Yield: 3.58
S/T: 3.47
No Code:3.35
Riot Act: 3.33
Binaural: 3.19

So here's what i learned. Backspacer is actually pretty far ahead of Yield and S/T (I thought they were closer). That album has just aged so well for me. S/T has gone down a bit in my esteem, and Yield has a pretty solid on it. No Code used to be on the bottom for me, so it's moved up a bit. And Riot Act has improved quite a bit too, based on new appreciations for cropduster and Get Right, and a renewed appreciation for Ghost. So Binaural is in the basement, and doesn't look to be climbing out any time soon.


So here is what's really surprising. Looking at the 6 tracks, and being conservative, I'd give Lightning bolt a 3.83. That's a fairly conservative estimate, and we still haven't heard what I am expecting to be 3 of the strongest tracks on the record. So it is entirely possibly that this record could actually knock Backspacer out of my 4 spot. This record could very well be my favorite pearl jam album since Vitalogy. Even if, say, 3 of the songs are average and 3 are good, but nothing is great, it'll still be better than everything but Backspacer.

Don't let me down, second half of the record!

Ledbetterdays wrote:I think so much has to do with when you got on board with the band and what kept you here. I like most of what I have heard but none of it will be as impressive or important as pre-Binaural. I have too much history with those songs and that band. People want Pearl Jam to be a lot of different things and I think many fans have been let down for the past ten years with those expectations. I still think the Star Wars analogy is a good one. If you grew up with the first three movies you will never love the last three. Or the next ten Disney will put out, but there will be hope and curiosity and for some that will be enough and for others it will not. Some bands find a way to reboot well into their careers but it requires commercial success. I do not think Sirens or anything else they have done comes close to that level of selling out.

Ledbetterdays wrote:I think so much has to do with when you got on board with the band and what kept you here. I like most of what I have heard but none of it will be as impressive or important as pre-Binaural. I have too much history with those songs and that band. People want Pearl Jam to be a lot of different things and I think many fans have been let down for the past ten years with those expectations. I still think the Star Wars analogy is a good one. If you grew up with the first three movies you will never love the last three. Or the next ten Disney will put out, but there will be hope and curiosity and for some that will be enough and for others it will not. Some bands find a way to reboot well into their careers but it requires commercial success. I do not think Sirens or anything else they have done comes close to that level of selling out.

Noaheb wrote:

stip wrote:Okay team, lets get serious for a second. I just went back and looked at my pearl jam rankings chart I made ages ago for some thing we were doing two iterations of the board ago (pre backspacer). My current album rankings would look like this (the number is the average score of the songs on that album from 1-5).



Vitalogy: 4.6 (my favorite record of all time. I'm too hard on things)
Ten: 4. 36
Vs: 4.08
Backspacer: 3.87
Yield: 3.58
S/T: 3.47
No Code:3.35
Riot Act: 3.33
Binaural: 3.19

So here's what i learned. Backspacer is actually pretty far ahead of Yield and S/T (I thought they were closer). That album has just aged so well for me. S/T has gone down a bit in my esteem, and Yield has a pretty solid on it. No Code used to be on the bottom for me, so it's moved up a bit. And Riot Act has improved quite a bit too, based on new appreciations for cropduster and Get Right, and a renewed appreciation for Ghost. So Binaural is in the basement, and doesn't look to be climbing out any time soon.


So here is what's really surprising. Looking at the 6 tracks, and being conservative, I'd give Lightning bolt a 3.83. That's a fairly conservative estimate, and we still haven't heard what I am expecting to be 3 of the strongest tracks on the record. So it is entirely possibly that this record could actually knock Backspacer out of my 4 spot. This record could very well be my favorite pearl jam album since Vitalogy. Even if, say, 3 of the songs are average and 3 are good, but nothing is great, it'll still be better than everything but Backspacer.

Don't let me down, second half of the record!

This is just blasphemy!
I knew how you felt already but it still gets me every time you put S/T and Backspacer above 3 of their best albums...and then Yield where it sits is just baffling...to each their own i guess irregardless of what I think

harmless wrote:I'm pretty sure I'll be ranking the post-Riot Act albums as follows:

Lightning Bolt
Backspacer
S/T

The only problem is I don't know which album is my least favourite of the first 7. Let's see:

Vitalogy
No Code
Riot Act
Yield
Ten
Vs.
Binaural

Yeah that looks about right. Lightning Bolt will be quite a long way underneath Binaural.

Noaheb wrote:This is just blasphemy! I knew how you felt already but it still gets me every time you put S/T and Backspacer above 3 of their best albums...and then Yield where it sits is just baffling...to each their own i guess irregardless of what I think

stip wrote:

Noaheb wrote:

stip wrote:Okay team, lets get serious for a second. I just went back and looked at my pearl jam rankings chart I made ages ago for some thing we were doing two iterations of the board ago (pre backspacer). My current album rankings would look like this (the number is the average score of the songs on that album from 1-5).



Vitalogy: 4.6 (my favorite record of all time. I'm too hard on things)
Ten: 4. 36
Vs: 4.08
Backspacer: 3.87
Yield: 3.58
S/T: 3.47
No Code:3.35
Riot Act: 3.33
Binaural: 3.19

So here's what i learned. Backspacer is actually pretty far ahead of Yield and S/T (I thought they were closer). That album has just aged so well for me. S/T has gone down a bit in my esteem, and Yield has a pretty solid on it. No Code used to be on the bottom for me, so it's moved up a bit. And Riot Act has improved quite a bit too, based on new appreciations for cropduster and Get Right, and a renewed appreciation for Ghost. So Binaural is in the basement, and doesn't look to be climbing out any time soon.


So here is what's really surprising. Looking at the 6 tracks, and being conservative, I'd give Lightning bolt a 3.83. That's a fairly conservative estimate, and we still haven't heard what I am expecting to be 3 of the strongest tracks on the record. So it is entirely possibly that this record could actually knock Backspacer out of my 4 spot. This record could very well be my favorite pearl jam album since Vitalogy. Even if, say, 3 of the songs are average and 3 are good, but nothing is great, it'll still be better than everything but Backspacer.

Don't let me down, second half of the record!

This is just blasphemy!
I knew how you felt already but it still gets me every time you put S/T and Backspacer above 3 of their best albums...and then Yield where it sits is just baffling...to each their own i guess irregardless of what I think

there's just a lot of songs I don't particularly like on No Code, Binaural, and Riot Act. A lot of songs. I wonder what kind of poster i would have been if I had RM for those records.

stip wrote:

Ledbetterdays wrote:I think so much has to do with when you got on board with the band and what kept you here. I like most of what I have heard but none of it will be as impressive or important as pre-Binaural. I have too much history with those songs and that band. People want Pearl Jam to be a lot of different things and I think many fans have been let down for the past ten years with those expectations. I still think the Star Wars analogy is a good one. If you grew up with the first three movies you will never love the last three. Or the next ten Disney will put out, but there will be hope and curiosity and for some that will be enough and for others it will not. Some bands find a way to reboot well into their careers but it requires commercial success. I do not think Sirens or anything else they have done comes close to that level of selling out.

the problem with this analogy is that the prequels are just wretchedly awful by almost any possible standard and fail most of the basic fundamental tasks of good storytelling. But your point about what you're looking for is still well taken

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:I'm pretty sure I'll be ranking the post-Riot Act albums as follows:

Lightning Bolt
Backspacer
S/T

The only problem is I don't know which album is my least favourite of the first 7. Let's see:

Vitalogy
No Code
Riot Act
Yield
Ten
Vs.
Binaural

Yeah that looks about right. Lightning Bolt will be quite a long way underneath Binaural.

you say that now. I'm not so sure

Ledbetterdays wrote:

stip wrote:

Ledbetterdays wrote:I think so much has to do with when you got on board with the band and what kept you here. I like most of what I have heard but none of it will be as impressive or important as pre-Binaural. I have too much history with those songs and that band. People want Pearl Jam to be a lot of different things and I think many fans have been let down for the past ten years with those expectations. I still think the Star Wars analogy is a good one. If you grew up with the first three movies you will never love the last three. Or the next ten Disney will put out, but there will be hope and curiosity and for some that will be enough and for others it will not. Some bands find a way to reboot well into their careers but it requires commercial success. I do not think Sirens or anything else they have done comes close to that level of selling out.

the problem with this analogy is that the prequels are just wretchedly awful by almost any possible standard and fail most of the basic fundamental tasks of good storytelling. But your point about what you're looking for is still well taken

I know but that is kinda the point. Kids who started with those movies look at the old ones as dated and kinda boring. I think a lot of people who got on board with Pearl Jam later have an easier time embracing the new style.

digster wrote:Some people like the whole discography, others like only parts. I guess it seems like more typically people prefer eras, for lack of a better term, or strings of albums. That makes sense; most artists in other mediums tend to work in a similar fashion. They hit their stride at a certain point in their career, whenever it is, and make the best and most consistent work of their career in one swoop, which may last months or decades.

I actually think it can be fun and interesting to kind of deal with albums you don't like by bands you do (or used to like); it's art like anything else, and addressing it's flaws is a part of being a critic, for lack of a better term. I don't really see the need to 'get off the train' if you haven't liked the band's last few works. If Scorsese made a few stinkers in a row, it wouldn't seem weird to me that people would still see, critique, and even pan the next flick he made. It's the same thing with music.

digster wrote:We've heard 8 songs so far. I enjoy them all (besides Future Days, which is probably the most negative initial reaction I've ever had to a PJ song). That being said, unless these four songs left are all-time masterpieces, I don't see how this moves into that top 7. But that doesn't necessarily mean it'll be poor.

Ledbetterdays wrote:

stip wrote:

Ledbetterdays wrote:I think so much has to do with when you got on board with the band and what kept you here. I like most of what I have heard but none of it will be as impressive or important as pre-Binaural. I have too much history with those songs and that band. People want Pearl Jam to be a lot of different things and I think many fans have been let down for the past ten years with those expectations. I still think the Star Wars analogy is a good one. If you grew up with the first three movies you will never love the last three. Or the next ten Disney will put out, but there will be hope and curiosity and for some that will be enough and for others it will not. Some bands find a way to reboot well into their careers but it requires commercial success. I do not think Sirens or anything else they have done comes close to that level of selling out.

the problem with this analogy is that the prequels are just wretchedly awful by almost any possible standard and fail most of the basic fundamental tasks of good storytelling. But your point about what you're looking for is still well taken

I know but that is kinda the point. Kids who started with those movies look at the old ones as dated and kinda boring. I think a lot of people who got on board with Pearl Jam later have an easier time embracing the new style.