Ukraine

[Bi_3]

Also, get Hegseth the fuck outta there and let the adults work:

[dimejinky99]

Not hand Ukraine to Putin on a platter would be a start.

[Anders]

Also, get Hegseth the fuck outta there and let the adults work:

We agree on this. Vance sounds like he is ready for tough negotiations, and tough measures if Russia doesn't want peace or breaks their promises. Hegseth sounds like he has given up Ukraine completely. Although, to be fair, Trump hasn't been much better than Hegseth.

[dimejinky99]

Vance for all his faults, does seem in tune with and very astutely working from the actual GOP, the old school who are still there and who know Russia is the enemy. And I think he has an eye on keeping them on side for his hopes in 4 years. I don’t think it’s just tough talk or a result of trumps constant dismissing of him.
He should really try avoid pontificating about all things Catholicism though. Having the actual Pontiff come out and scold you and correct you, publicly, that’s gotta sting and hopefully he’s learned the lesson

[Higgs]

Ok, but what specifically can we do about it?

Wasn't that Hungarian dude from the White House crapping on about the US being the most powerful country in the world with however many nuclear armed subs in that BBC interview? "There is no nation in the world that has more leverage than the United States and its current president Donald J Trump".

[BurtReynolds]

We have to fund Ukraine forever because they are in the right and America is responsible for the well being everyone on earth. We're bad people if we don't spend all our money taking care of everyone and fight the bad guys all over the planet. If we don't, we're Russian. If we aren't the world police to keep all these barbarians acting right, then they are doomed! It's our special burden.

While this is dripping with classic Burt facetiousness, even if we back off, we are also basically telling the Russians this is ok. Are you ok with that? I didn't take you for a commie, Burt. Also, if we back off and Russia movies further in to eastern europe, you still ok with not being the world police? Where is the line where you say "ok, maybe we should stop them before it gets too far out of control"?

I think if this war has taught me anything, it's that - win or lose - the Russian military is a joke with no hope of rolling into Europe. They've been exposed as a paper tiger, and their nosediving demographics aren't going to let them improve. I'd be more worried about china rolling into eastern Russia. I doubt Russia could do much to stop them.

I'm not ok with empires invading other countries, but at the same time, that doesn't mean we are responsible for stopping every aggressive invader on earth. If Europe is so worried about it, they can move some of their tax money over from their generous welfare programs (subsidized by the US military) and start spending on defense.

And I was kind of on the fence before the Iraq war. Finding out it was bullshit was wake up call. Were you for it?

Finding out it was bullshit was pretty much why i left the military

Well I'm sure all the people and institutions that lied about that war are honest and good sources now.

[Anders]

Whatever you think of that war, and the administration in the US lying about WMD (or possibly just being wrong), it really has nothing to do with hundreds of thousands dying in a completely different war and region 22 years later. Even making any comparison is absurd.

[dimejinky99]

Well it was the republicans gave the billions to the afghans to fight the Russians and that became the taliban so it’s all a weird distorted full circle forever war.
As long as the weapons manufacturers are getting paid who gives a shit about the human cost?

[Anders]

Well it was the republicans gave the billions to the afghans to fight the Russians and that became the taliban so it’s all a weird distorted full circle forever war.
As long as the weapons manufacturers are getting paid who gives a shit about the human cost?

Similar with Iraq: «United States support for Ba'athist Iraq during the Iran–Iraq War, in which it fought against post-revolutionary Iran, included several billion dollars' worth of economic aid, the sale of dual-use technology, military intelligence, and special operations training»

This despite Iraw actually using WMD (chemical weapons) to massacre Kurds, and Saddam generally being a brutal dictator.

But let’s stick to Ukraine here.

[Bi_3]

I dont understand what folks think should be done here. More sanctions won’t work so long as BRICS nations and the global south will still buy from Russia. More weapons are helpful in the near term, but at some point UKR will run out of soldiers to use them, so what then?

[Anders]

Whatever is necessary. We can not look on as Ukraine lose.

[96583UP]

ruskies sending in their best negotiator diplomats for this. one with 50+ years experience. US likely outmatched with the Fox News staff at the tip of the spear. Need Ukraine to refuse and wait until adults are back in the oval office

[E.H. Ruddock]

ruskies sending in their best negotiator diplomats for this. one with 50+ years experience. US likely outmatched with the Fox News staff at the tip of the spear. Need Ukraine to refuse and wait until adults are back in the oval office

Yeah if Hegseth is our main negotiator, Ukraine stands no chance

[Simple Torture]

ruskies sending in their best negotiator diplomats for this. one with 50+ years experience. US likely outmatched with the Fox News staff at the tip of the spear. Need Ukraine to refuse and wait until adults are back in the oval office

Yeah if Hegseth is our main negotiator, Ukraine stands no chance

::staggers off stool:: “You vanna sway that to my pace? Let’s take this outside.” ::stumbles, falls::

[dimejinky99]

Also, get Hegseth the fuck outta there and let the adults work:

I'm not seeing how you could think Vance's speech was any less deranged or clueless as Hesgeths. It was worse in several different ways.

[dimejinky99]

see Below

[dimejinky99]

Macron held a meeting today with some other EU and NATO country leaders

After bringing together several European leaders, I have just spoken with President @realDonaldTrump and then with President @ZelenskyyUa.

We seek a strong and lasting peace in Ukraine. To achieve this, Russia must end its aggression, and this must be accompanied by strong and credible security guarantees for the Ukrainians. Otherwise, there is a risk that this ceasefire will end up like the Minsk agreements.

We will work on this together with all Europeans, Americans, and Ukrainians. This is the key.

We are convinced that Europeans must invest better, more, and together in their security and defense—both for today and for the future.

To this end, Europeans want to accelerate the implementation of their own agenda for sovereignty, security, and competitiveness. Work will continue based on the European Commission’s proposals, both in supporting Ukraine and in developing and investing in our defense. This agenda, defined in 2022 at the Versailles Summit, must simply be carried out. Decisions, actions, coherence. Quickly.

I will continue these discussions in the coming days.

[dimejinky99]

[dimejinky99]

After we let Russia occupy part of your country and steal your resources, we will occupy the other part and do the same.

Ukraine needs to tell both the Russians and Americans to get the fuck out

The U.S. seeks to obtain 50% of Ukraine's rare minerals and has signaled openness to deploy American troops to guard them if there is a deal with Russia to end the war, NBC reported on Feb. 15, citing unnamed American officials.
Ukraine war latest: US wants 50% of Ukraine's minerals, may deploy troops to guard them; Zelensky says nearly 250,000 Russian soldiers killed in war

https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-war ... -soldiers/

[96583UP]

sending US troops to defend ukrainian minerals seems so schlocky

the 'american way' would normally be to grant no-bid contracts to insider-american-oligarch firms to mine the minerals and have rights to the minerals that supersede ukranian sovereign rights and then have the US govt subsidize heavily paid and heavily armed private military contractors to protect those sites and defend the contractors from prosecution for unwarranted civilian casualties when they mission creep into inappropriate extracurricular assignments