Red Mosquito

tommymtcom wrote:Hilary is just more of the same. Trump is a wild card. It's exciting.

Kaius wrote:I bet Hillary has done worse things than Trump.

Simple Torture wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Strat wrote:somebody explain to me why hillary is as bad as trump, or why she is so hated. I know being a lifelong politician is gross, but come on. These two people are nothing alike

They are alike in some ways, not in others. Trump is worse, but Clinton only looks good in comparison. She's a loathsome human being.

I won't go as far as Burt, but I think I can explain my distaste of (and at least some others' problems with) Clinton this way: while there are many, many policy issues that I agree with Clinton on, there's a sense in this country that our political system is out of whack in many ways--some think it's completely broken, others think it's just stalled, but lots of people--hey, including me!--would like an injection of something fresh to shock the system and see how things settle. Does a politician who's been involved in executive-level politics for a majority of the time since 1991 seem like the sort of person who's going to do this? It's the same sort of wave Trump is riding, in a sense. And there are also serious issues the country is facing--whether they be economic, social, or Jew--that I'm sure Clinton is aware of, but after listening to her speak about a dozen times in this cycle, I'm not so sure how she plans to face them. Even though lots of Sanders' ideas are pie-in-the-sky--in the sense that they'd require a willing-to-compromise Congress that he would never have--at least he picks some signature policies and explains how he'd implement them. What's Clinton's campaign "about" except that she wants to be president?

turned2black wrote:Hillary gets shit from liberals for:

a) her "hawkish" tendencies in foreign policy
b) her ties to "corporate" America
c) her lack of transparency
d) Bill's centrists policies

Hillary gets shit from conservatives for:

a) being a woman
b) her last name is Clinton
c) her lack of transparency means she killed Vince Foster, intentionally withheld assistance while people were dying at an American embassy, used the Clinton Foundation as a slush fund and posted top secret documents on her Facebook feed.

stip wrote: Also liberals hate air quotes

stip wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Strat wrote:somebody explain to me why hillary is as bad as trump, or why she is so hated. I know being a lifelong politician is gross, but come on. These two people are nothing alike

They are alike in some ways, not in others. Trump is worse, but Clinton only looks good in comparison. She's a loathsome human being.

I won't go as far as Burt, but I think I can explain my distaste of (and at least some others' problems with) Clinton this way: while there are many, many policy issues that I agree with Clinton on, there's a sense in this country that our political system is out of whack in many ways--some think it's completely broken, others think it's just stalled, but lots of people--hey, including me!--would like an injection of something fresh to shock the system and see how things settle. Does a politician who's been involved in executive-level politics for a majority of the time since 1991 seem like the sort of person who's going to do this? It's the same sort of wave Trump is riding, in a sense. And there are also serious issues the country is facing--whether they be economic, social, or Jew--that I'm sure Clinton is aware of, but after listening to her speak about a dozen times in this cycle, I'm not so sure how she plans to face them. Even though lots of Sanders' ideas are pie-in-the-sky--in the sense that they'd require a willing-to-compromise Congress that he would never have--at least he picks some signature policies and explains how he'd implement them. What's Clinton's campaign "about" except that she wants to be president?

In the same vein, Clinton sees corporate excess and inequality as issues to address, like gun control or transgender bathroom rights. She does not see the as structural issues that have fundamentally altered the nature of American democracy and the social order embedded within it. Sanders does. This does not mean that a sanders presidency means snapping your fingers and everything is ok. He knows that as well. But the position you start from and the way you conceptualize problems absolutely impacts what you try and reach for, how far you get, and how helpful it is.

Sanders support among young voters isn't because he is young and hip. That was Obama, not a 70 plus year old New York Jew. It's because that is the demographic for whom protestations that everything is fine and ceremonial attempts to close the gap between our theory and our practice are the least likely to be effective. Young voters will go to Clinton to stop trump because the GOP is so loathsome, not because she will be an agent capable of changing a system that has shut them out

tommymtcom wrote:

stip wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Strat wrote:somebody explain to me why hillary is as bad as trump, or why she is so hated. I know being a lifelong politician is gross, but come on. These two people are nothing alike

They are alike in some ways, not in others. Trump is worse, but Clinton only looks good in comparison. She's a loathsome human being.

I won't go as far as Burt, but I think I can explain my distaste of (and at least some others' problems with) Clinton this way: while there are many, many policy issues that I agree with Clinton on, there's a sense in this country that our political system is out of whack in many ways--some think it's completely broken, others think it's just stalled, but lots of people--hey, including me!--would like an injection of something fresh to shock the system and see how things settle. Does a politician who's been involved in executive-level politics for a majority of the time since 1991 seem like the sort of person who's going to do this? It's the same sort of wave Trump is riding, in a sense. And there are also serious issues the country is facing--whether they be economic, social, or Jew--that I'm sure Clinton is aware of, but after listening to her speak about a dozen times in this cycle, I'm not so sure how she plans to face them. Even though lots of Sanders' ideas are pie-in-the-sky--in the sense that they'd require a willing-to-compromise Congress that he would never have--at least he picks some signature policies and explains how he'd implement them. What's Clinton's campaign "about" except that she wants to be president?

In the same vein, Clinton sees corporate excess and inequality as issues to address, like gun control or transgender bathroom rights. She does not see the as structural issues that have fundamentally altered the nature of American democracy and the social order embedded within it. Sanders does. This does not mean that a sanders presidency means snapping your fingers and everything is ok. He knows that as well. But the position you start from and the way you conceptualize problems absolutely impacts what you try and reach for, how far you get, and how helpful it is.

Sanders support among young voters isn't because he is young and hip. That was Obama, not a 70 plus year old New York Jew. It's because that is the demographic for whom protestations that everything is fine and ceremonial attempts to close the gap between our theory and our practice are the least likely to be effective. Young voters will go to Clinton to stop trump because the GOP is so loathsome, not because she will be an agent capable of changing a system that has shut them out

I'm not convinced this is true. I think a lot of young people will just stay home if Clinton is the nominee.

Simple Torture wrote:So what's Mitt Romney's game plan here? Is he hoping to establish some cred as a wise elder statesman and then make one last run at the presidency in 2020? Like, I'm baffled by it.

Biff Pocoroba wrote:Is Romney really the best guy to present the mainline GOPs case against Trump? Granted his as established Republican as you can get but he's also the one that lost to a beatable Obama.

Biff Pocoroba wrote:Is Romney really the best guy to present the mainline GOPs case against Trump? Granted his as established Republican as you can get but he's also the one that lost to a beatable Obama.