Red Mosquito

well thats your take i presume, i respect it.

I say it again, i was talking about the 2022 invasion.
We actually dont know what could or should have happen, we know what happened though, and it escalated on him, the US and Europe into getting into a very messy situation.

But again, thats just an opinion, im not trying to antagonize anyone.

VinylGuy wrote:well thats your take i presume, i respect it.

I say it again, i was talking about the 2022 invasion.
We actually dont know what could or should have happen, we know what happened though, and it escalated on him, the US and Europe into getting into a very messy situation.

But again, thats just an opinion, im not trying to antagonize anyone.

The 2022 invasion didn’t happen because of something Zelensky had done, it was in motion for years, because Putin is a very sick and evil man. That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact.

ok Putin is evil, Zelenski is an angel.

Got it.

Neither Ukraine nor any of their neighbors are obligated to capitulate to Russia because they have a fantasy about remaining a continental power and only feel secure when their borders go up against mountains and seas. Russia is worried about an invasion from the West that was never going to happen. The West only cares about maintaining the maritime order and making money. Europe would have loved if Russia joined in. The only country Russia has to worry about is their current ally China who would like nothing more than to take large swaths of Russian territory. Blaming countries that desperately wanted to be in NATO and enjoy western security because they have a long history of Russia doing horrible things to them is an odd take but a lot of people lean that way. It's a shame Trump is one of them. I'm not against the idea that Europe should be paying for and defending themselves and not relying on the U.S. in theory but I wonder what that looks like in practice. U.S. will lose a lot of influence and strong militaries in Europe tend to have historically bad results. There is undoubtably a ton of fraud, abuse and probably an ungodly amount of aid money that had gone into a few guys pockets and I'm sure Zelensky is neck deep in it but I'd still back them.

VinylGuy wrote:ok Putin is evil, Zelenski is an angel.

Got it.

Putin has invaded and killed for a few decades now, have millions of lives lost because of him, women raped, kids abducted, cities bombed to nothing. All political rivals killed. Jounalists killed, newpapers banned. What has he got to do for you see what a shit he is?

Zelensky was a tv comedian until 2019, when he won a fair presidential election against a billionaire, who was the sitting president. What he has done since has been admirable.

"Russian State TV and Kremlin Insiders Laughing at Trump's Concessions to Putin over Ukraine"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 97943.html

(from a week ago)

The same Russian tv show was showing how and where Russia would launch nukes at the US only yesterday.

Anders wrote:

this genuinely makes me feel sick. I feel we are headed for dark times.

VinylGuy wrote:ok Putin is evil, Zelenski is an angel.

Got it.

The only remarkable thing about this guy is he survived his poisoning. Putin takes out his opponents of all stripes VG.

VinylGuy wrote:ok Putin is evil, Zelenski is an angel.

Got it.

What are you talking about?

Russia invaded Ukraine.

VG could be our Dennis Rodman.
We could send him to the Kremlin to make friends with Putin and this would al be over by the morning.

I can't believe what I'm reading here...

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Trump saying Ukraine started it, and that Zelensky is a dictator. How are more GOP members not up in arms about his obvious sidling up to Putin? I have friends and family that still call the Russians "commies" and think we are in the cold war, yet they are supporting Trump on this. We can't be real, right? This is the matrix?

lol these people are such fucking losers they will apparently go ANYWHERE with Trump.

tragabigzanda wrote:

bada wrote:Neither Ukraine nor any of their neighbors are obligated to capitulate to Russia because they have a fantasy about remaining a continental power and only feel secure when their borders go up against mountains and seas. Russia is worried about an invasion from the West that was never going to happen. The West only cares about maintaining the maritime order and making money. Europe would have loved if Russia joined in. The only country Russia has to worry about is their current ally China who would like nothing more than to take large swaths of Russian territory. Blaming countries that desperately wanted to be in NATO and enjoy western security because they have a long history of Russia doing horrible things to them is an odd take but a lot of people lean that way. It's a shame Trump is one of them. I'm not against the idea that Europe should be paying for and defending themselves and not relying on the U.S. in theory but I wonder what that looks like in practice. U.S. will lose a lot of influence and strong militaries in Europe tend to have historically bad results. There is undoubtably a ton of fraud, abuse and probably an ungodly amount of aid money that had gone into a few guys pockets and I'm sure Zelensky is neck deep in it but I'd still back them.

It looks like the US selling a shitload of next-gen warfighter tech to Europe. Leadership from both parties will benefit hugely from this.

‘It looks like ‘ ?

Who’s buying? Do you have a link?

I saw earlier today on tweeter that someone asked what the steelman argument for continuing the war is and both the answers and responses were seriously lacking. What is the steelman for continuing to fight?