Red Mosquito

It seems like Ed has never really taken Stone seriously and actually sometimes seems to almost make fun of him.

No do it like this:



100!!!!

shit sorry bout that

dimejinky99 wrote:

matt reeder wrote:I'm completely ambivalent about a new record. Hopefully they release one and hopefully it's good. I just want shows, and shows in the PNW. It's completely embarrassing that they made such a huge fuss over their 20th anniversary and commemorated by not even bothering to play even one show in Seattle, or anywhere close (and don't tell me Vancouver counts, because it doesn't). It's been 4 years now, and before that it was 5 years. Since the 4 show run in Seattle in 2002, they've played 2 big shows and 2 small shows.

They absolutely need to make up for lost time before this area completely stops caring about them.

Would it not have been a bit obvious and all too easy to play the PNW/Seattle to mark that anniversary? A lot of people would be screaming 'easy cash grab/yeah they played here cos nowhere else cares' had they done it.

Be interesting to see if Bruce or Neil or any of those guys played their hometown for their 20th anniversary.

It'd be corny at best had PJ done it. They'd have been slaughtered for it.

Are you fucking kidding me? I think U2 should do a U2-35 next year and celebrate it by playing beautiful downtown Sao Paolo, since Ireland would be corny.

Strat wrote:This is totally ridiculous and complete conjecture but I think that Ed and Stone still dont really LIKE eachother. Some dude posted the old "10 after 10" article on the pit and i started reading it again. This quote really stuck out:

STONE GOSSARD: I don't think I appreciated Eddie like I do now back then—his words and where he was coming from. Writing songs like "Release" or "Even Flow" in that basement together, I knew immediately when he was singing it felt good. But it took Ed and me a long time to get to know each other. We were very different kinds of people.

Just an interesting choice of words. "appreciate". You can appreciate someone but still not like them. Then I started thinking about the comments Ed made at Pj20 Alpine.

"Take turn leading this group at different times..." Just seems like LIp Service since the whole PJ20 thing brought up some interesting group struggles..

Not that it matters in the end because ultimately all it needs to be is a good artistic relationship to create a good product (which I think they have done a great job of) But it's just kind of interesting. I get interested in Human Dynamic and this is kind of an interesting one. I dont think they like each other but they certainly respect each other. There is a difference.

Listening to the 2000 bootlegs you can tell at times that Ed and Stone don't really get along that well. Like at West Palm Beach I, when Ed makes numerous references to "paralyzed big baby" and it's pretty obvious (at least to me) that he's talking about Stone? Or at Jones Beach III when he and Stone essentially get into an argument on stage about what to play next? It's an interesting dynamic and it probably explains why it seems like Ed and Stone never seem to jam together, write songs together, etc. Everyone works with everyone else in the band, except Ed and Stone. It would also explain why Stone essentially checked out of the band after Yield (though why that is exactly is unclear to me...).

Strat wrote:This is totally ridiculous and complete conjecture but I think that Ed and Stone still dont really LIKE eachother. Some dude posted the old "10 after 10" article on the pit and i started reading it again. This quote really stuck out:

STONE GOSSARD: I don't think I appreciated Eddie like I do now back then—his words and where he was coming from. Writing songs like "Release" or "Even Flow" in that basement together, I knew immediately when he was singing it felt good. But it took Ed and me a long time to get to know each other. We were very different kinds of people.

Just an interesting choice of words. "appreciate". You can appreciate someone but still not like them. Then I started thinking about the comments Ed made at Pj20 Alpine.

"Take turn leading this group at different times..." Just seems like LIp Service since the whole PJ20 thing brought up some interesting group struggles..

Not that it matters in the end because ultimately all it needs to be is a good artistic relationship to create a good product (which I think they have done a great job of) But it's just kind of interesting. I get interested in Human Dynamic and this is kind of an interesting one. I dont think they like each other but they certainly respect each other. There is a difference.

I figure it's a lot like most working relationships. I know in the as a designer, I've worked with plenty of other designers who I can't really stand as people personally, but they are fantastic to work with and I have tremendous respect for their creativity, skills, and insights, and they light creative fires inside of me that I might not have found had it not been for them. But at the end of the workday, we say goodbye and see you tomorrow. Never hang out and grab a beer and be chummy.

WtOB? wrote:It seems like Ed has never really taken Stone seriously and actually sometimes seems to almost make fun of him.

why? if you could elaborate, that'd be great. i find it really interesting because I always had the incorrect thought that Stone and Ed were close (when I first got into the band and read interviews, etc, I thought the guy with the funny hats HAD to be named Stone. While the orange pants wearing dweeb was Jeff.) so its a mindfuck

I don't see why they wouldn't get along. There's definitely a mutual respect but you can have that and get along without liking the person. Creatively and ith final say, It's ed's ship still I think but I'd imagine Stone is cool with that at this point.

matt reeder wrote:it's an interesting dynamic and it probably explains why it seems like Ed and Stone never seem to jam together, write songs together, etc. Everyone works with everyone else in the band, except Ed and Stone. It would also explain why Stone essentially checked out of the band after Yield (though why that is exactly is unclear to me...).

is that actually true? Does stone bring in more finished songs than jeff (or is Ed less likely to add lyrics to stone compositions)? Outside of lyrics who has writing credits with Ed?

those are not rhetorical questions, btw. I don't know the answer.

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:it's an interesting dynamic and it probably explains why it seems like Ed and Stone never seem to jam together, write songs together, etc. Everyone works with everyone else in the band, except Ed and Stone. It would also explain why Stone essentially checked out of the band after Yield (though why that is exactly is unclear to me...).

is that actually true? Does stone bring in more finished songs than jeff (or is Ed less likely to add lyrics to stone compositions)? Outside of lyrics who has writing credits with Ed?

those are not rhetorical questions, btw. I don't know the answer.

I take Matt's post to mean musical collaborations, ie: Matt and Mike wrote the music to Unemployable; Matt, Stone and Mike wrote the music to The Fixer; Stone and Mike wrote the music to Comatose; Mike and Matt appear on Jeff's second solo record; Stone and Ed both contributed to Jack's first solo album but never on the same songs (as far as I recall.)

Apart from songs credited jointly to the entire band, I think In My Tree is the only song in the entire catalogue where Stone and Ed (along with Jack in that instance) have written music together.

oh sure, but does ed collaborate on music with any of them? My point is that this may not just be stone.

Birds in Hell wrote:

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:it's an interesting dynamic and it probably explains why it seems like Ed and Stone never seem to jam together, write songs together, etc. Everyone works with everyone else in the band, except Ed and Stone. It would also explain why Stone essentially checked out of the band after Yield (though why that is exactly is unclear to me...).

is that actually true? Does stone bring in more finished songs than jeff (or is Ed less likely to add lyrics to stone compositions)? Outside of lyrics who has writing credits with Ed?

those are not rhetorical questions, btw. I don't know the answer.

I take Matt's post to mean musical collaborations, ie: Matt and Mike wrote the music to Unemployable; Matt, Stone and Mike wrote the music to The Fixer; Stone and Mike wrote the music to Comatose; Mike and Matt appear on Jeff's second solo record; Stone and Ed both contributed to Jack's first solo album but never on the same songs (as far as I recall.)

Apart from songs credited jointly to the entire band, I think In My Tree is the only song in the entire catalogue where Stone and Ed (along with Jack in that instance) have written music together.

Stone and Eddie worked on the lyrics for Bushleaguer and All Or None together.

Stone and Ed recorded Strangest Tribe and Drifting together at his studio.

My feeling is that they aren't best buddies, but that they have a decent professional relationship. From interviews and footage you get the sense that they are very different people.

stip wrote:oh sure, but does ed collaborate on music with any of them? My point is that this may not just be stone.

It's unclear how much upfront work Ed does with the band. Everything I have read about these sessions seems to indicate he is not there for most of them, which could mean a major personality conflict (Eddie and the Pearl Jams type thing) or that his process is not collaborative in nature while the rest of the band member's are. Either way, there will be friction if something the band worked on is dropped to make room for something Ed did by himself. If he were to stop playing guitar live it might work differently as he could still write music but would need to work with the team to perform it, but we is where we is with this band.

I think the Stone vs. Ed stuff is most likely overstated. They have different personalities, sure, but I don't really see much to say that they dislike each other.

I don't think it's overstated. I've posted this before, and still don;t understand how it didn't make waves in the PJ community, but read the book "Grunge is Dead" by Greg? Prato. Regan Hagar, one of Stone's best, if not the best friend he has, absolutely lays into EdVed and Pearl Jam over Brad stuff from years ago. It's actually pretty harsh. I assume all is well now since he works within the PJ organization, but there was a huge amount of resentment and it was from Stone's best friend. I can only think there was as much, if not even more resentment between Stone himself with Ed. Read the book, it makes it pretty clear that SOMETHING happened in the past, and it was most likely related to Brad. Also, just different approaches to handling success and leadership within the band. I think they are over it but shit sticks around I'm sure. That said, some of the greatest creative relationships are often born out of conflict. I think it's great when they make an effort cause there is a real interesting spark between those two.

Tuolumne wrote:I don't think it's overstated. I've posted this before, and still don;t understand how it didn't make waves in the PJ community, but read the book "Grunge is Dead" by Greg? Prato. Regan Hagar, one of Stone's best, if not the best friend he has, absolutely lays into EdVed and Pearl Jam over Brad stuff from years ago. It's actually pretty harsh. I assume all is well now since he works within the PJ organization, but there was a huge amount of resentment and it was from Stone's best friend. I can only think there was as much, if not even more resentment between Stone himself with Ed. Read the book, it makes it pretty clear that SOMETHING happened in the past, and it was most likely related to Brad. Also, just different approaches to handling success and leadership within the band. I think they are over it but shit sticks around I'm sure. That said, some of the greatest creative relationships are often born out of conflict. I think it's great when they make an effort cause there is a real interesting spark between those two.

I remember the Monkeywrench 98 broadcast Ed mentioning it's the first time he's heard Brad and thinks it was pretty cool or something, even though they had 2 albums out by then and had been together for 6 years. Unless he's referring to those particular batch of songs.

But if it really took Eddie until 1998 to even listen to Brad, then man what a dick that guy is.

Tuolumne wrote:I don't think it's overstated. I've posted this before, and still don;t understand how it didn't make waves in the PJ community, but read the book "Grunge is Dead" by Greg? Prato. Regan Hagar, one of Stone's best, if not the best friend he has, absolutely lays into EdVed and Pearl Jam over Brad stuff from years ago. It's actually pretty harsh. I assume all is well now since he works within the PJ organization, but there was a huge amount of resentment and it was from Stone's best friend. I can only think there was as much, if not even more resentment between Stone himself with Ed. Read the book, it makes it pretty clear that SOMETHING happened in the past, and it was most likely related to Brad. Also, just different approaches to handling success and leadership within the band. I think they are over it but shit sticks around I'm sure. That said, some of the greatest creative relationships are often born out of conflict. I think it's great when they make an effort cause there is a real interesting spark between those two.

Someone should make a retrospective movie about Pearl Jam that discuss everything they went through in the 90s.