Red Mosquito

bodysnatcher wrote:Argo, interested in your opinion about this. Bc what we've been talking about is something I've tried to understand in the past. Completely appreciate and understand the point of view you've given in previous posts. But what do you think it is about the angry disconnect between vegans and non-vegans? To me – and i completely understand i am probably wrong here – but the conversations i've had with extremely assertive vegans in the past, there's just an air of superiority and a condescending attitude that I've received when discussing what I eat compared to what they eat. And i completely realize that my experience in these conversations isn't a wide brush stroke of all vegans. there are lovely vegans out there who don't give a shit about talking about it. it's just my experience, and maybe others' experiences too?

i also think that an air of superiority is just naturally human in regards to anything that anyone is passionate about. For instance, there's a brewery in town and the owners are hardcore frisbee golf players. The entire bar is themed in frisbee golf. I go there often bc they make good beer and have descent food cars. often time i've found myself having a conversation about frisbee golf with someone in the bar. I've played the game a handful of times, enough to know the rules and have fun with it. But it's just weekend fun. There have been times when someone is telling me about the better frisbees, the better courses – and a couple of times – kinda made fun of me for being a casual frisbee golf guy who uses $5 frisbees. But you know what, I don't really give a shit, I play frisbee golf about 3 times a year and that shit just makes me laugh. Weird example, but....

Do you think vegans vs. non-vegans gets SO heated because Eating is something we all do? It's absolutely necessary. frisbee golf, who gives a shit if someone talks to me about a better frisbee. But if someone talks to me about a better alternative to turkey, i get more upset bc i love turkey sandwiches. it's just way more personal. my mom made me turkey sandwiches for lunch as a kid. i still love turkey sandwiches. and now i'm interpreting this jabronie's message to me as an assault on my entire personal experience with turkey. from that point of view, i get it if a kid grows up with vegan parents, and they get made fun of by someone who says that meat is better than their alternative. there's a lot of emotions, a lot of attachments, a lot of values and beliefs attached to food.

do you think some of this is stemmed from some of the extreme messaging and points of views from particular groups? for instance, PETA. i feel like they've probably done more harm than good in a lot of people. i get that their thing isn't JUST veganism, it's bigger than that. but for example, when i told my parents that i try and limit my red meat intake to make once every 1-2 weeks, my dad mentioned PETA and laughed. I don't even know how he knows about PETA! but i do know he gets riled up by extreme messaging. do you think there's some trickle down effect from the extremism of important issues regarding food? i don't want to make this a PETA conversation or a political thing.

Also, fully aware that this is a very privileged conversation. The fact that a lot of us half a choice of what to eat, and can argue and have a conversation about this, is very ridiculous from a greater point of view.

I'm just thinking trying to think about this as i type. i feel like there's a bridge that could be built but just trying to understand what it is that makes people so divisive.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

bodysnatcher wrote:Argo, interested in your opinion about this. Bc what we've been talking about is something I've tried to understand in the past. Completely appreciate and understand the point of view you've given in previous posts. But what do you think it is about the angry disconnect between vegans and non-vegans? To me – and i completely understand i am probably wrong here – but the conversations i've had with extremely assertive vegans in the past, there's just an air of superiority and a condescending attitude that I've received when discussing what I eat compared to what they eat. And i completely realize that my experience in these conversations isn't a wide brush stroke of all vegans. there are lovely vegans out there who don't give a shit about talking about it. it's just my experience, and maybe others' experiences too?

i also think that an air of superiority is just naturally human in regards to anything that anyone is passionate about. For instance, there's a brewery in town and the owners are hardcore frisbee golf players. The entire bar is themed in frisbee golf. I go there often bc they make good beer and have descent food cars. often time i've found myself having a conversation about frisbee golf with someone in the bar. I've played the game a handful of times, enough to know the rules and have fun with it. But it's just weekend fun. There have been times when someone is telling me about the better frisbees, the better courses – and a couple of times – kinda made fun of me for being a casual frisbee golf guy who uses $5 frisbees. But you know what, I don't really give a shit, I play frisbee golf about 3 times a year and that shit just makes me laugh. Weird example, but....

Do you think vegans vs. non-vegans gets SO heated because Eating is something we all do? It's absolutely necessary. frisbee golf, who gives a shit if someone talks to me about a better frisbee. But if someone talks to me about a better alternative to turkey, i get more upset bc i love turkey sandwiches. it's just way more personal. my mom made me turkey sandwiches for lunch as a kid. i still love turkey sandwiches. and now i'm interpreting this jabronie's message to me as an assault on my entire personal experience with turkey. from that point of view, i get it if a kid grows up with vegan parents, and they get made fun of by someone who says that meat is better than their alternative. there's a lot of emotions, a lot of attachments, a lot of values and beliefs attached to food.

do you think some of this is stemmed from some of the extreme messaging and points of views from particular groups? for instance, PETA. i feel like they've probably done more harm than good in a lot of people. i get that their thing isn't JUST veganism, it's bigger than that. but for example, when i told my parents that i try and limit my red meat intake to make once every 1-2 weeks, my dad mentioned PETA and laughed. I don't even know how he knows about PETA! but i do know he gets riled up by extreme messaging. do you think there's some trickle down effect from the extremism of important issues regarding food? i don't want to make this a PETA conversation or a political thing.

Also, fully aware that this is a very privileged conversation. The fact that a lot of us half a choice of what to eat, and can argue and have a conversation about this, is very ridiculous from a greater point of view.

I'm just thinking trying to think about this as i type. i feel like there's a bridge that could be built but just trying to understand what it is that makes people so divisive.

tl;dr

doug rr wrote:

Jorge wrote:I wonder if anything about it, taste or texture, actually resembles tuna. Sometimes watermelons are surprising

not sure i've ever been surprised by a watermelon

Strat wrote:

Ello Sailor wrote:Surely it's about trying to nail the texture while masking everything else. There's no way watermelon can be prepped to taste like fish.

Maybe really bad expired watermelon?

Look, im up for trying most anything but fuck vegans. Psychopaths.

Jorge wrote:

Strat wrote:

Ello Sailor wrote:Surely it's about trying to nail the texture while masking everything else. There's no way watermelon can be prepped to taste like fish.

Maybe really bad expired watermelon?

Look, im up for trying most anything but fuck vegans. Psychopaths.

Remember when people here thought you were a nice person

tragabigzanda wrote:Lol Argo

There’s ample evidence that a locally sourced sustainably raised burger, or line-caught fish, could very likely contribute less aggregate suffering on the world than a veggie burger made from ingredients sourced the world over. Everything that goes into that veggie burger has an impact — on the environment, on the labor force, etc.

“The obvious answer meat is less moral” is horseshit. If you’re talking locally sourced beans + veggies vs locally sourced meat, perhaps. But once you get into multi-party production schemes across international borders, the argument holds no water.

Go back to vegan school, you failed.

96583UP wrote:excellent points all around

i might also add there is probably some selection bias in this group's examples given the age group

young people tend to have more time / energy to be self-righteous

old people don't

the vegans you / we know are likely from our 20s and 30s and they prob didnt have kids or real responsibilities and still had enough personal time on their hands to form strong views about nice-to-haves

The Argonaut wrote:Trag, I've seen The Good Place, too. Everything is a sin when the economy is run on a global supply chain. But you didn't even read my post. You just saw a couple keywords that reminded you of a sophomoric discussion you had in your college class and vomited back a four sentence summary of it. Pathetic!

And these are all questions that vegans have not only thought deeply about but made definite decisions about. So, they're at an advantage in that conversation. And I think the obvious answer---if you were somehow able to lift yourself away from your own history and memories and culture and ascend to some transcendent plane for a moment and in that moment you were asked: as a relatively affluent person who can live a long, healthy life with a plant-based diet, is it moral to kill and eat animals?---the obvious answer is meat is less moral. It's better not to kill than to kill, right, if it is put that simply.