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Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 6:40 pm
by stip
no mention of the incompleteness on the website. Where did you see the PM/PM thing?
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 6:40 pm
by stip
matt reeder wrote:dprival78 wrote:apparently push me, pull me was cut too. 10c says "technical errors"..
whether it was indeed that, or just more revisionist history, how about telling people that it's incomplete before you start taking their money?
Or how about not releasing shows that have an embarrassing moment for one of the band members? I was all stoked to order this but I'm not paying for an incomplete show.
Seriously - all three of the vault shows they've released have been incomplete in some way.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 6:44 pm
by matt reeder
stip wrote:matt reeder wrote:dprival78 wrote:apparently push me, pull me was cut too. 10c says "technical errors"..
whether it was indeed that, or just more revisionist history, how about telling people that it's incomplete before you start taking their money?
Or how about not releasing shows that have an embarrassing moment for one of the band members? I was all stoked to order this but I'm not paying for an incomplete show.
Seriously - all three of the vault shows they've released have been incomplete in some way.
To resume:
1/17/92 - Missing Baba O'Riley
4/12/94 - Missing 3 songs, they sent out 5 others in 256k mp3 - would it really be that hard to offer a download of the full show at a discount if you purchased the deluxe edition? That would be pretty easy
8/02/07 - Missing Ed's preset
9/19/98 - Missing 2 songs
If you can't do this stuff right, then DON'T FUCKING DO IT AT ALL.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 6:46 pm
by stip
you know, it's not that stuff is missing per se that would bother me. Maybe you don't want to release something that has painful personal memories, or there really is a problem with a song. But as you said, just pick a different show then.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 6:48 pm
by Kevin Davis
To be fair, none of the official bootlegs have included the pre-sets (except for Mansfield '03).
I don't know, I think this is still pretty cool. There are tons of fantastic live albums that aren't complete shows. While I'm bummed that "Push Me Pull Me" got cut (I don't really care about a ten millionth version of "Ledbetter"), this is probably still going to be two discs' worth of Pearl Jam at very close to their peak.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 6:49 pm
by matt reeder
stip wrote:you know, it's not that stuff is missing per se that would bother me. Maybe you don't want to release something that has painful personal memories, or there really is a problem with a song. But as you said, just pick a different show then.
Here's the thing - we know the "technical error" thing is bullshit because they planned on releasing the Constitution Hall show as a live album back in 1998, and later decided to release
Live on Two Legs instead. I really doubt they would have released an incomplete live show as a live album in 1998 - I just don't see them doing that.
Here's what I'm guessing - they're going through materials for a No Code/Yield reissue and they stumbled upon the test pressing of the Constitution Hall show and thought "oh yeah, we were going to release this! Let's put that out as a vault show!". And then they listened to it, and decided to delete the two songs that embarrassed them (I just listened to "Push Me Pull Me" - it's a bit rough but still pretty good).
Fucking Pearl Jam.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 6:50 pm
by Strat
Cut the banter...dont fucking cut the song.
Ledbetter? Really?
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 6:52 pm
by Norah
Kevin Davis wrote:To be fair, none of the official bootlegs have included the pre-sets (except for Mansfield '03).
I don't know, I think this is still pretty cool. There are tons of fantastic live albums that aren't complete shows. While I'm bummed that "Push Me Pull Me" got cut (I don't really care about a ten millionth version of "Ledbetter"), this is probably still going to be two discs' worth of Pearl Jam at very close to their peak.
This. I'm disappointed but I'm still looking forward to what we are getting.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 6:53 pm
by Kevin Davis
matt reeder wrote:I really doubt they would have released an incomplete live show as a live album in 1998 - I just don't see them doing that.
matt reeder wrote:they planned on releasing the Constitution Hall show as a live album back in 1998, and later decided to release Live on Two Legs instead.
Huh?
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 6:53 pm
by matt reeder
Kevin Davis wrote:To be fair, none of the official bootlegs have included the pre-sets (except for Mansfield '03).
I don't know, I think this is still pretty cool. There are tons of fantastic live albums that aren't complete shows. While I'm bummed that "Push Me Pull Me" got cut (I don't really care about a ten millionth version of "Ledbetter"), this is probably still going to be two discs' worth of Pearl Jam at very close to their peak.
It's not what's missing that bothers me - I couldn't care less for either song. It's: 1) Not telling people the show is incomplete before taking their money and 2) Deleting something just because it dredges up an uncomfortable past; that's what bothers me.
They also could have easily released the MSG 1998 show, Mansfield 2 or any other show from that time period since they recorded them all. It's that they deliberately chose to release a show that is incomplete, that was edited entirely for personal reasons that bother me.
It's their choice, but I don't respect lying to fans (at least, so it seems to me) and taking their money without telling them that the show is incomplete.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 6:59 pm
by southp
Pre-ordered and very excited for this.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 7:02 pm
by Chris_H_2
So on PJ Radio, the PMPM wasn't completely cut -- just the first verse.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 7:03 pm
by stupidmop
I don't think the songs being cut has anything to do with the beth stuff. They could have cut it out without touching Ledbetter, its on YouTube. Maybe it was just technical difficulties.
That being said they absolutely should have mentioned that the songs were missing before letting people buy it.
Would people still have been annoyed if only the speech had been cut? I'd have been more suprised if they left it in.
Also I love this version of push me pull me.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 7:07 pm
by matt reeder
stupidmop wrote:I don't think the songs being cut has anything to do with the beth stuff. They could have cut it out without touching Ledbetter, its on YouTube. Maybe it was just technical difficulties.
That being said they absolutely should have mentioned that the songs were missing before letting people buy it.
Would people still have been annoyed if only the speech had been cut? I'd have been more suprised if they left it in.
I can buy the "technical difficulties" argument, but this is now the third separate vault release that is missing tracks due to "technical difficulties". Between that and the failure to record the Mexico City show a couple years ago, it's enough to make a person wonder.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 7:18 pm
by nightmareblack0206
Can somebody share this with me or is that not allowed?
I apologize in advance if it is not allowed
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 7:26 pm
by stupidmop
matt reeder wrote:stupidmop wrote:I don't think the songs being cut has anything to do with the beth stuff. They could have cut it out without touching Ledbetter, its on YouTube. Maybe it was just technical difficulties.
That being said they absolutely should have mentioned that the songs were missing before letting people buy it.
Would people still have been annoyed if only the speech had been cut? I'd have been more suprised if they left it in.
I can buy the "technical difficulties" argument, but this is now the third separate vault release that is missing tracks due to "technical difficulties". Between that and the failure to record the Mexico City show a couple years ago, it's enough to make a person wonder.
I dunno, maybe I'm just naive but shit happens, electronics fuck up all the time. Though like other people have said, surely they should have a couple of complete shows without errors laying around somewhere.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 7:34 pm
by ---
nightmareblack0206 wrote:Can somebody share this with me or is that not allowed?
I apologize in advance if it is not allowed
shoot a PM to the theplatypus account, and let him do what he do
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 7:36 pm
by BurtReynolds
I'm not buying a show that doesn't include the closer, even if it is YL for the millionth time.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 7:38 pm
by stip
nightmareblack0206 wrote:Can somebody share this with me or is that not allowed?
I apologize in advance if it is not allowed
it is not.
Re: Vault #3 - Constitution Hall, 9-19-1998 (vinyl, cd, digi
Posted: Mon June 10, 2013 7:43 pm
by Strat
quick preview....
man, they sound so good. Ed sounds fantastic. Songs are tight.