Red Mosquito

Anyway I've been boycotting Wayfair for the last three years since I don't need any new furniture so it's nice to see this become a virtue.

Fuck if I know the right answer here.

I'm supposed to shop local, but for me that means Fitch's Lumber in Carrboro. They're prices aren't a little bit more than Lowe's/Home Depot. I priced out a front door, and it was 4 god damned times more expensive. Not to mention, they close at noon on Saturday and don't open at all on Sunday.

What is a working family with limited disposable income supposed to do?

B wrote:Fuck if I know the right answer here.

I'm supposed to shop local, but for me that means Fitch's Lumber in Carrboro. They're prices aren't a little bit more than Lowe's/Home Depot. I priced out a front door, and it was 4 god damned times more expensive. Not to mention, they close at noon on Saturday and don't open at all on Sunday.

What is a working family with limited disposable income supposed to do?

If i were to shop locally my choices would be: WalMart and furniture and fur stores that sell furniture for $10M mansions.

B wrote:Fuck if I know the right answer here.

I'm supposed to shop local, but for me that means Fitch's Lumber in Carrboro. They're prices aren't a little bit more than Lowe's/Home Depot. I priced out a front door, and it was 4 god damned times more expensive. Not to mention, they close at noon on Saturday and don't open at all on Sunday.

What is a working family with limited disposable income supposed to do?

Hasten the revolution?

Mickey wrote:Anyway I've been boycotting Wayfair for the last three years since I don't need any new furniture so it's nice to see this become a virtue.

I had never even heard of Wayfair until this controversy.

B wrote:Fuck if I know the right answer here.

I'm supposed to shop local, but for me that means Fitch's Lumber in Carrboro. They're prices aren't a little bit more than Lowe's/Home Depot. I priced out a front door, and it was 4 god damned times more expensive. Not to mention, they close at noon on Saturday and don't open at all on Sunday.

What is a working family with limited disposable income supposed to do?

This might be a good opportunity to bring up the question of whether shopping local is indeed virtuous.

What is more important to you? Shopping local to support the community? Around here that means that most local business owners are super conservative, generally anti-anyone not straight white, good 'ol boy Republicans.

I think situations like that, and the ones being invoked more broadly here, show the limits of individual consumer behavior as a means to redress broader structural concerns. Which is precisely why a certain segment of the political spectrum leans so heavily on "vote with your dollar" and ignores that this just isn't an option for a big swath of the country (to say nothing of its lack of efficacy).

Mickey wrote:I think situations like that, and the ones being invoked more broadly here, show the limits of individual consumer behavior as a means to redress broader structural concerns. Which is precisely why a certain segment of the political spectrum leans so heavily on "vote with your dollar" and ignores that this just isn't an option for a big swath of the country (to say nothing of its lack of efficacy).

On the other hand, consumer behavior/pressure seems to have been more successful influencing businesses in things like gun/ammo policies, use of plastics, etc., than voters have been trying to accomplish those same goals.

4/5 wrote:

Mickey wrote:I think situations like that, and the ones being invoked more broadly here, show the limits of individual consumer behavior as a means to redress broader structural concerns. Which is precisely why a certain segment of the political spectrum leans so heavily on "vote with your dollar" and ignores that this just isn't an option for a big swath of the country (to say nothing of its lack of efficacy).

On the other hand, consumer behavior/pressure seems to have been more successful influencing businesses in things like gun/ammo policies, use of plastics, etc., than voters have been trying to accomplish those same goals.

Could you be more specific? I'm not sure I agree but I'm also not sure we're thinking of the same things. In the first place, while I certainly would admit that gun control legislation has been a spectacular failure, a number of the plastic bans have been enforced legislatively (ie LA's banning of the plastic bag) or come about through agitation rather than consumer economic action. I'm sure there are counter examples but in my mind restaurants getting rid of straws are responding to public pressure--or rather, that there are very few people refusing to go to shake shack until they get rid of straws. In the second place, and perhaps more importantly, I would distinguish between consumer pressure and consumer behavior. I think there's a difference between drumming up mass support and "voting with your dollar" as an atomized subject. These two things overlap of course but I see things like "shop local" more on the side of the latter, and also (resultingly) more ineffective.

Mickey wrote:

4/5 wrote:

Mickey wrote:I think situations like that, and the ones being invoked more broadly here, show the limits of individual consumer behavior as a means to redress broader structural concerns. Which is precisely why a certain segment of the political spectrum leans so heavily on "vote with your dollar" and ignores that this just isn't an option for a big swath of the country (to say nothing of its lack of efficacy).

On the other hand, consumer behavior/pressure seems to have been more successful influencing businesses in things like gun/ammo policies, use of plastics, etc., than voters have been trying to accomplish those same goals.

Could you be more specific? I'm not sure I agree but I'm also not sure we're thinking of the same things. In the first place, while I certainly would admit that gun control legislation has been a spectacular failure, a number of the plastic bans have been enforced legislatively (ie LA's banning of the plastic bag) or come about through agitation rather than consumer economic action. I'm sure there are counter examples but in my mind restaurants getting rid of straws are responding to public pressure--or rather, that there are very few people refusing to go to shake shack until they get rid of straws. In the second place, and perhaps more importantly, I would distinguish between consumer pressure and consumer behavior. I think there's a difference between drumming up mass support and "voting with your dollar" as an atomized subject. These two things overlap of course but I see things like "shop local" more on the side of the latter, and also (resultingly) more ineffective.

I agree that there's a difference between consumer pressure and consumer behavior, so if we're talking only about consumer behavior, then you're right. My point is that businesses are often (certainly not always) more responsive to "the people" than governments often (certainly not always) are. Some states and local governments have absolutely responded legislatively to public pressure on those issues, but whereas virtually nothing has happened at the national level or huge swaths of Red States, places like Starbucks, Walmart, and Dick's have responded by not using plastic straws, or raising age requirements above what some states require or refusing to sell certain types of weapons.

Looking back at your post that I replied to originally, I realize this isn't what you were talking about, but my point is that businesses are responsive to social pressure, allowing people to be successful addressing "broader structural concerns" via this route, perhaps more than they are by casting a few votes every couple of years.

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I want to boycott Home Depot because of irritating, fruity-as-fuck voiceover guy in their commericals.

Speaking of which...

Has anyone noticed lately that a majority of voiceover people these days are either total fruits or redneck shitstains?

It's like liberals and conservatives are at war with each other through voiceovers.

I've been pointing this out for months now, but nobody on the entire planet seems to notice or care except me.

4/5 wrote:

Mickey wrote:

4/5 wrote:

Mickey wrote:I think situations like that, and the ones being invoked more broadly here, show the limits of individual consumer behavior as a means to redress broader structural concerns. Which is precisely why a certain segment of the political spectrum leans so heavily on "vote with your dollar" and ignores that this just isn't an option for a big swath of the country (to say nothing of its lack of efficacy).

On the other hand, consumer behavior/pressure seems to have been more successful influencing businesses in things like gun/ammo policies, use of plastics, etc., than voters have been trying to accomplish those same goals.

Could you be more specific? I'm not sure I agree but I'm also not sure we're thinking of the same things. In the first place, while I certainly would admit that gun control legislation has been a spectacular failure, a number of the plastic bans have been enforced legislatively (ie LA's banning of the plastic bag) or come about through agitation rather than consumer economic action. I'm sure there are counter examples but in my mind restaurants getting rid of straws are responding to public pressure--or rather, that there are very few people refusing to go to shake shack until they get rid of straws. In the second place, and perhaps more importantly, I would distinguish between consumer pressure and consumer behavior. I think there's a difference between drumming up mass support and "voting with your dollar" as an atomized subject. These two things overlap of course but I see things like "shop local" more on the side of the latter, and also (resultingly) more ineffective.

I agree that there's a difference between consumer pressure and consumer behavior, so if we're talking only about consumer behavior, then you're right. My point is that businesses are often (certainly not always) more responsive to "the people" than governments often (certainly not always) are. Some states and local governments have absolutely responded legislatively to public pressure on those issues, but whereas virtually nothing has happened at the national level or huge swaths of Red States, places like Starbucks, Walmart, and Dick's have responded by not using plastic straws, or raising age requirements above what some states require or refusing to sell certain types of weapons.

Looking back at your post that I replied to originally, I realize this isn't what you were talking about, but my point is that businesses are responsive to social pressure, allowing people to be successful addressing "broader structural concerns" via this route, perhaps more than they are by casting a few votes every couple of years.

Nothing to add here, just want to say that this is a great exchange, which highlights a real tension I don't think is talked about enough. Markets do seem the best, most efficient way to enact change, but the playing field is never going to be level.

If anyone thinks that any big box store execs have the same values, moral or political, as the common shopper, I've got news for you.

It's always annoying when one of these companies is the focus of something like this. You can name any big company and find something reprehensible about their execs' views.

Found this thread while doing a search for “plastics”. I agree with Ruddo above, but I’d also like to add that it’s incredibly annoying that Home Depot and Lowe’s are by far the best options when undertaking a big project, due to material cost. For in-and-out errands, I love my local shop with the inviting name: Martini’s Hardware.