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Re: 148. Pendulum vs. In the Moonlight
Posted: Sun March 28, 2021 4:26 pm
by wease
In The Moonlight is just fucking cool. It’s the best song Matt’s written outside of Soundgarden.
Re: 148. Pendulum vs. In the Moonlight
Posted: Sun March 28, 2021 4:35 pm
by Kevin Davis
Thanks for the kind words, guys. I listened to CD1 of Lost Dogs for the first time in a while after making that post, and really enjoyed it. There aren't a lot of moments in the Pearl Jam catalog to which my reaction is just plain, lighthearted joy, but Stone's backing vocals in "Gremmie Out of Control" are definitely one of those moments. Also Jack's drumming in "Black Red Yellow." Also Jack's drumming in general.
Re: 148. Pendulum vs. In the Moonlight
Posted: Sun March 28, 2021 4:44 pm
by stip
Kevin Davis wrote:I kind of feel like I said everything I can think to say about all of these songs during my first few years of March Madness, but I will always pipe up for "In the Moonlight." It's maybe one of 10 Pearl Jam songs that I am always happy to hear, regardless of how interested I am in Pearl Jam in general at any given time or what my other transient listening habits are at the moment. Here is the quote pyramid into which I have apparently been compiling all of my thoughts about this song over the years, which unlike Joey I am more than happy to bore you with:
- Spoiler: show
Kevin Davis wrote:As years go by this song seems more and more like the bell at the end of "The Polar Express": Many hear it and hear the generic sound of a rusty old bell, but those who can hear it, hear magic. It is one of a very few PJ songs that feels surrounded by a sort of tangible force to me. While there are some Matt Cameron compositional hallmarks throughout, unlike some of his other tunes I don't hear it and think "hmmm, these are interesting time signatures" or "wow, great bridge work," true though those things are; I'm just swept up by its total presence, overcome by all that entails, for better or worse.
This is what I had to say about this song a few years ago, and this is what I still say about it.
Kevin Davis wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:LoathedVermin72 wrote:I still don't get "In the Moonlight". Why does everyone love it so much?
Magical. Evocative. Atmospheric. Sexy. Full of potent imagery. Ed sounds great. The band sounds great. I think it's a brilliant song.
I love how the slow, almost bluesy grind of the song plays against those ethereal multi-tracked vocals, all breaking in that tension-release chorus -- there's a duality to the song that causes you to feel like you're at once being stalked by something sinister and watched over by some kind of protective angelic force, and it stakes out a rare sonic and emotional space as a result. "A night bird is following you all the time" is one of my favorite images in the PJ canon.
One of my all-time favorite songs. The live version with Josh Homme is perfect.
Re: that last sentence, I'd encourage anyone still on the fence to check that version out for an earthier, less deliberate-sounding take on the song. Homme's ominous falsetto is the perfect foil to Eddie's low baritone, replicating the studio take's after-dark ambiance in a more natural setting. One of the few truly great post-2006 PJ live performances.
Our difference in opinion on this song has long been something of a joke between Stip and me, and reading him call it "emotionless" here, coupled with his take on it in the "Bushleaguer" vs. "Leatherman" thread, where he remarks that he prefers performances with a bit more flash and agility, highlights why we always seem to reach the same impasse.
If your taste for emotion in a Pearl Jam song is restricted to the kind of sweeping catharsis you get from the songs on Ten and Vs. (which EV has attempted to recapture to varying degrees of success in the PRAMG years), where the volume and histrionics in the outward presentation are seen as varying in proportion to the singer's commitment to the words and sentiments, I can see where "In the Moonlight" would seem emotionless.
But Pearl Jam have a lot of songs that are full of quieter, subtler, more nuanced emotions than those that are expressed through flash and filigree -- things like anxiety, confusion, peace, relief, etc. are emotions too, and ones that are as genuinely felt and expressed inwardly as feelings like anguish and rage are felt and expressed outwardly. Those emotions (anxiety, peace, etc.) are all things I feel at various moments through "In the Moonlight," though in somewhat abstract, intangible ways that don't necessarily tie directly to the content of the lyrics, and I credit the song for somewhat economically moving through such a spectrum of seemingly contradictory feelings in close to just three minutes. Songs like this tend to engage my brain and my reflexes over a longer period of time than others that are more explicit in their intentions -- they keep me guessing, keep me thinking, even after I've committed their more superficial elements to memory. And being a lover of Matt Cameron's writing and slightly off-center musical construction in general, the superficial elements would be enough for me to love this song even if none of the other stuff I just said applied.
I really love "In the Moonlight."
While I love that approach, I would hardly call it a restriction - there are a ton of songs in the catalog that are more restrained (and do all the things you highlighted that I adore, and do it phenomenally well) but have a subtly and nuance I just don't hear here (though obviously others do), and a level of emotional engagement (which obviously is more then just some screaming but thanks for the reductive characterization of my musical sensibilities) that I find almost entirely absent in the bulk of Matt's writing (or, I suppose Eddie's ability to work with his lyrics).
I think this is a particularly problem Ed runs into when dealing with Matt songs, which tend to have a flatness to them I don't care for. A languid one note quality that, at least for me, doesn't hint at hidden depths. It's not quite boredom, but it feels adjacent. I don't know why that is. But you find it on In the Moonlight, You Are (though I think it's much more musically interesting), Take the Long Way (unsurprisingly the song I like the least on Gigaton, though it's fine). And on S/T Unemployable is the song that works the least for me. Or Evacuation on Binaural - where Eddie tries to use some of his more traditional strengths and the end result is awkward. Eddie has trouble finding himself in Matt's writing.
There are exceptions. Cropduster works well (though that's one of the more melodic of his pieces - feels more like a Stone song, tbh), Get Right, which push through with a wryness that isn't in the other songs. I love the Fixer, but Eddie really makes that his own.
I guess it's probably more Matt then Ed, or the combo of the two.
I try, every year, to give these songs another go. There are certainly songs that have grown on my over the years that I was initially dismissive of (Around the Bend and Get Right are great examples). And usually I'll take a look given how much the mean to people whose opinions I respect. But In the Moonlight has gotten nowhere.
Re: 148. Pendulum vs. In the Moonlight
Posted: Sun March 28, 2021 4:44 pm
by stip
Having said that, nice to see you posting

Re: 148. Pendulum vs. In the Moonlight
Posted: Sun March 28, 2021 5:17 pm
by Kevin Davis
stip wrote:thanks for the reductive characterization of my musical sensibilities
Just to clarify, I thought I was working off a distinction that you yourself had already made about your own preferences in the other thread, that one of the things that holds this song back for you is a missing element of "flash and agility" that you find present in other songs. Perhaps it was my mistake to assume that the absence of that quality is what prompted you to classify the song as "emotionless" in this thread; maybe they are two separate weaknesses that you find both work against your enjoyment of the song in different ways. Either way, I didn't mean to be condescending.
Re: 148. Pendulum vs. In the Moonlight
Posted: Sun March 28, 2021 5:28 pm
by stip
I mean that is a preference, so it's something that makes me slightly less predisposed to like a song. But there are certainly songs that are going for it that don't do much for me (in the Ten/Vs era and now), just like there are songs that are quiet and introspective that are very powerful. This is starting from a place that I generally am less likely to reach for - but then ITM fails to offer anything to me once I do. A song like Nothing As It Seems tends to be a monochromatic performance by Eddie, but it ends up being a great song anyway - in part the music and lyrics provide some of the color that isn't there in the performance, but there is also nuance in the delivery and subtlety in the performance that make it work. None of that is here. I don't feel the atmosphere, the lyrics don't intrigue me, and at no point does Eddie drag me into his performance - through a shout or a whisper.
Re: 148. Pendulum vs. In the Moonlight
Posted: Sun March 28, 2021 5:31 pm
by liebzz
I voted for Pendulum. In the Moonlight is a good song and I like a lot of things about it, but Pendulum is a great song that doesn’t get enough love here. The brightest spot on LB.
Re: 148. Pendulum vs. In the Moonlight
Posted: Sun March 28, 2021 5:31 pm
by Kevin Davis
stip wrote:I mean that is a preference, so it's something that makes me slightly less predisposed to like a song. But there are certainly songs that are going for it that don't do much for me (in the Ten/Vs era and now), just like there are songs that are quiet and introspective that are very powerful. This is starting from a place that I generally am less likely to reach for - but then ITM fails to offer anything to me once I do. A song like Nothing As It Seems tends to be a monochromatic performance by Eddie, but it ends up being a great song anyway - in part the music and lyrics provide some of the color that isn't there in the performance, but there is also nuance in the delivery and subtlety in the performance that make it work. None of that is here. I don't feel the atmosphere, the lyrics don't intrigue me, and at no point does Eddie drag me into his performance - through a shout or a whisper.
That's fair -- sorry for jumping to an unreasonable conclusion about the reason for your dislike. You'd think we'd have hammered this one out enough over the years for this to be clearer!
Re: 148. Pendulum vs. In the Moonlight
Posted: Sun March 28, 2021 5:35 pm
by stip
really what you should be apologizing for is making me go back and listen to this thing every year. I keep looking for what you see in it

Re: 148. Pendulum vs. In the Moonlight
Posted: Sun March 28, 2021 6:24 pm
by Kevin Davis
I'd feel worse about this if I didn't know that this was a torment at least somewhat of your own doing, as I have read your very eloquent posts on "Mind Your Manners" over the years without ever having felt compelled to revisit it.
We'll always have "The Fixer"

Re: 148. Pendulum vs. In the Moonlight
Posted: Sun March 28, 2021 9:55 pm
by Leatherhead
ITM just sounds cool to my ears.