i heard a live version of 'jeremy' on the radio the other day and i thought it was a cover at first. like sludge metal or something lol.
'not for you' is a song that is probably better for it.
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Tue August 30, 2022 7:30 pm
by XWayne
Jorge wrote:What are the worst sounding songs that you found? I remember a version of "Getaway" that was particularly bad
The songs played 1 tone down are really weird.
Marker in the Sand 2009-11-29 and Infallible on 2016-04-21 are good examples, plus the band is quite off with their playing on the "rarities".
Only Crazy Mary and W.M.A. really stand out with the key change as the lower range makes sense with the dynamics of these songs.
I guess the band identified this improvement during rehearsals and purposely changed the key, while for almost all the other songs it just went as "Ed can no longer reach high notes on this one, let's drop the tuning by a half step".
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Tue August 30, 2022 9:04 pm
by Captain Termite
XWayne wrote:...
- some songs are played 1 full tone down. Listening to the original versions, then the 1/2 step down ones, then 1 step down ones is quite brutal...
...
- Mankind and Don't Gimme No Lip are downtuned. What's happening to you Stone ?
Why is the default assumption that it is a detriment to the song (with exceptions like Crazy Mary)? Personal taste? Again, I ask from a place of musical ignorance.
Also, this is interesting to me because I would have guessed that Ed sings higher now, based on the weird stuff he does with vowels in the past decade.
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Wed August 31, 2022 4:55 am
by totalsellout
XWayne wrote:I had some time to kill, and as I play the guitar I am quite interested in this topic, I checked the tuning of the songs played live.
I have checked the latest versions of each song to see if they were played in the same key as their studio counterpart, then went back on past tours and shows when the tuning was changed.
I have not checked all live versions, so I certainly miss potential one-off changes for some songs on specific dates.
I have put the full list under a spoiler tag as it is a bit long, but the main info is:
- there is a significant number of songs that have been tuned down in 2022, in particular Vs ones (Blood has not been played since 2018).
- several songs from Backspacer and Lightning Bolt were never played in their original tuning
- some Gigaton songs were initially played as on the album, then tuned down on later shows. For the other albums, the downtuning usually occurred on a new tour.
- some songs are played 1 full tone down. Listening to the original versions, then the 1/2 step down ones, then 1 step down ones is quite brutal...
- I had totally forgot the 2008 version of W.M.A.
- Mankind and Don't Gimme No Lip are downtuned. What's happening to you Stone ?
This is brilliant, thank you.
(also a guitar player)
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Wed August 31, 2022 9:29 am
by XWayne
Captain Termite wrote:Why is the default assumption that it is a detriment to the song (with exceptions like Crazy Mary)? Personal taste? Again, I ask from a place of musical ignorance.
Also, this is interesting to me because I would have guessed that Ed sings higher now, based on the weird stuff he does with vowels in the past decade.
It is mainly personal taste, I find it impacts the original intent of the songs: with a lower tuning, the songs have a heavier and slower feel which does not fit for me the dynamics of the band.
For example, Alice in Chains have their songs recorded and played half a step lower (at least for the Layne years, I have not checked on recent records), which fits the mood of their songs and their sludgy sound. The downtuning is intentional here, where PJ's downtuning for shows is a practical solution to fit Ed's vocal capacities.
By listening back to back to different live versions of songs with different tunings, you should feel the impact on the performance.
For Ed pronunciation choices, it is another topic. If only he could stop mimicking Freddie Mercury with audience chants in the middle of Corduroy or Porch...
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Wed August 31, 2022 2:39 pm
by Captain Termite
XWayne wrote:
Captain Termite wrote:Why is the default assumption that it is a detriment to the song (with exceptions like Crazy Mary)? Personal taste? Again, I ask from a place of musical ignorance.
Also, this is interesting to me because I would have guessed that Ed sings higher now, based on the weird stuff he does with vowels in the past decade.
It is mainly personal taste, I find it impacts the original intent of the songs: with a lower tuning, the songs have a heavier and slower feel which does not fit for me the dynamics of the band.
For example, Alice in Chains have their songs recorded and played half a step lower (at least for the Layne years, I have not checked on recent records), which fits the mood of their songs and their sludgy sound. The downtuning is intentional here, where PJ's downtuning for shows is a practical solution to fit Ed's vocal capacities.
By listening back to back to different live versions of songs with different tunings, you should feel the impact on the performance.
For Ed pronunciation choices, it is another topic. If only he could stop mimicking Freddie Mercury with audience chants in the middle of Corduroy or Porch...
Thank you.
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Fri September 02, 2022 8:25 pm
by mikejasond
Now they're even downtuning Black and Even Flow. I heard a downtuned (I think) Quick Escape on the radio that sounded awful. Pearl Jam were such iron men for so long it's pretty sad to see them finally slowing down.
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Fri September 02, 2022 8:27 pm
by JuanHamm
Can someone please post a side by side example of this? I don't really listen to the newer boots, so I don't know what this sounds like.
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Sat September 03, 2022 10:37 pm
by Birds in Hell
I don't think playing songs in a lower key is inherently going to mean they sound worse. Some might even sound better!
The problem with Pearl Jam doing it in the past is they've seemed to approach it in an ad hoc 'let's wing it' fashion, instead of putting in some rehearsal time adjusting to how best present the song in a different key. As a result, it feels there's often a slight hesitancy or awkwardness in the way Jeff, Stone and Mike approach the guitar parts, and that sometimes Ed struggles to overcome his muscle memory of the original vocal part. It's as though the new key of the songs isn't really internalised by the band (not surprising given they're used to hearing the songs a certain way for decades) and it doesn't flow naturally as a result.
In any event, I don't think it's necessarily fatal at all. Changing the key of everything down a semitone (or more) is definitely a new development for the band, so it's interesting to see if they stick with it moving forward. I just hope they spend some serious time rehearsing the songs in the lower keys to make them sound best.
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Sun September 04, 2022 3:21 am
by totalsellout
Been watching a live stream of the Ottawa show and unless something is weird with the stream, this is the first time I've noticed songs like Corduroy, Immortality, Black, Porch, Better Man, Alive all being played down in D.
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Sun September 04, 2022 1:57 pm
by warehouse
does EV tune his guitar down when he plays solo?
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Sun September 04, 2022 2:19 pm
by wease
Birds in Hell wrote:I don't think playing songs in a lower key is inherently going to mean they sound worse. Some might even sound better!
The problem with Pearl Jam doing it in the past is they've seemed to approach it in an ad hoc 'let's wing it' fashion, instead of putting in some rehearsal time adjusting to how best present the song in a different key. As a result, it feels there's often a slight hesitancy or awkwardness in the way Jeff, Stone and Mike approach the guitar parts, and that sometimes Ed struggles to overcome his muscle memory of the original vocal part. It's as though the new key of the songs isn't really internalised by the band (not surprising given they're used to hearing the songs a certain way for decades) and it doesn't flow naturally as a result.
In any event, I don't think it's necessarily fatal at all. Changing the key of everything down a semitone (or more) is definitely a new development for the band, so it's interesting to see if they stick with it moving forward. I just hope they spend some serious time rehearsing the songs in the lower keys to make them sound best.
I wonder how Boom’s adjusting to playing all the songs down a half step.
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Sun September 04, 2022 5:35 pm
by Birds in Hell
Crazy Mary wasn't tuned down (at least not more than usual) - I wonder if that was for Boom's benefit.
I'm definitely not an expert in this area, but I imagine some keyboard parts are easier/more natural to transpose down than others.
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Sun September 04, 2022 6:39 pm
by wease
Birds in Hell wrote:Crazy Mary wasn't tuned down (at least not more than usual) - I wonder if that was for Boom's benefit.
I'm definitely not an expert in this area, but I imagine some keyboard parts are easier/more natural to transpose down than others.
I’m sure highly proficient players have no problem, but going to all the keys being in flats/sharps could definitely be an issue for some.
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Mon September 05, 2022 4:47 am
by Birds in Hell
JuanHamm wrote:Can someone please post a side by side example of this? I don't really listen to the newer boots, so I don't know what this sounds like.
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Tue September 06, 2022 6:36 pm
by mikejasond
From the comparison videos its just sad to see Pearl Jam transform from a truly SPECIAL Band - even though 2006 is far past their prime of relevance - truly an amazing live act, to just a one of many nostlagia bands, that just gets through the material. Like from 2006 you could link people and go wow Pearl Jam is good. The recent vids with the downtuned songs just sounds like any other past their prime band that tours. There's nothing special about it.
I might not have been so disappointed if Gigaton wasn't so good. I really thought we were going to get a resurgence from the band's quality but it seems covid derailed everything. Eddie used to be one of the best live singers ever, IMO. Truly truly special. And that was true through 2006.
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Tue September 06, 2022 9:28 pm
by The Town
Birds in Hell wrote:
JuanHamm wrote:Can someone please post a side by side example of this? I don't really listen to the newer boots, so I don't know what this sounds like.
[Pearl Jam - Life Wasted (Verona '06) HD 9-16-2006 Verona, Italy]
[Pearl Jam - Life Wasted - Ohana Encore Festival (October 2, 2021)]
This helps explain how some of the sparkle is missing in their live performance.
Re: Songs now being played in a lower key
Posted: Tue September 06, 2022 9:41 pm
by JuanHamm
The Town wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
JuanHamm wrote:Can someone please post a side by side example of this? I don't really listen to the newer boots, so I don't know what this sounds like.
This helps explain how some of the sparkle is missing in their live performance.