Red Mosquito

Can we put that in a March Madness bracket? I'm sure if someone added a quarter second of Ed warble to the end, stip would count it as a solo track.

stip wrote:

Iholdthepain wrote:They actually denounced the term 'grunge'

Definitely NOT marketed as 'Hair Metal'... but Pantera was... Look up their first album cover for a good laugh.

I like to think PJ was simply a great rock band. Now they're just a train wreck anytime they're outside of the studio. The EV solo shows are much more impressive.

Did you see any shows this tour? The general impression was that they were great. This is anecdotal, but I took a casual fan to his first show (Brooklyn 2). His favorite bands are arcade fire and the national. He saw all 3 bands in about a month span of each other and thought pjs shows was the best by a fair bit.

Of course you can't take the rm out of rmers so as soon as the tour finished everyone went back to talking about how pearl jam has sucked since 2000/2003/2006

Stip, thanks for being both critical of the band and rational.

stip wrote:

Iholdthepain wrote:They actually denounced the term 'grunge'

Definitely NOT marketed as 'Hair Metal'... but Pantera was... Look up their first album cover for a good laugh.

I like to think PJ was simply a great rock band. Now they're just a train wreck anytime they're outside of the studio. The EV solo shows are much more impressive.

Did you see any shows this tour? The general impression was that they were great. This is anecdotal, but I took a casual fan to his first show (Brooklyn 2). His favorite bands are arcade fire and the national. He saw all 3 bands in about a month span of each other and thought pjs shows was the best by a fair bit.

Of course you can't take the rm out of rmers so as soon as the tour finished everyone went back to talking about how pearl jam has sucked since 2000/2003/2006

Yes, saw the Voodoo show, and there were several 'train wreck' moments. Also, listened to several aud boots and have read reports of some of the songs this tour getting completely jacked up. Put me in the camp that thinks post-2003 live PJ is far inferior. I still liked some of the stuff on Avocado and Backspacer, but they obviously have changed their vision as a band by then. Hell, EV married a fucking model (not that I blame him)!

That being said, they're far better than most of the mainstream shit that's marketed to us.

i can't wait for pryto's next thread about this

Iholdthepain wrote:they're far better than most of the mainstream shit that's marketed to us.

Umm, Pearl Jam is the mainstream shit that's marketed to us.

stip wrote:

Iholdthepain wrote:They actually denounced the term 'grunge'

Definitely NOT marketed as 'Hair Metal'... but Pantera was... Look up their first album cover for a good laugh.

I like to think PJ was simply a great rock band. Now they're just a train wreck anytime they're outside of the studio. The EV solo shows are much more impressive.

Did you see any shows this tour? The general impression was that they were great. This is anecdotal, but I took a casual fan to his first show (Brooklyn 2). His favorite bands are arcade fire and the national. He saw all 3 bands in about a month span of each other and thought pjs shows was the best by a fair bit.

Of course you can't take the rm out of rmers so as soon as the tour finished everyone went back to talking about how pearl jam has sucked since 2000/2003/2006

I think "train wreck" is a relative term - are they still a reasonably competent live rock band? For the most part, yes, and most people undoubtedly walk out of the shows happy. The recordings reveal a marked contrast, however, between the band's performances now and as recently as the 2006 tour (which was uniformly excellent, performance-wise). The decline isn't imagined.

Birds in Hell wrote:

stip wrote:

Iholdthepain wrote:They actually denounced the term 'grunge'

Definitely NOT marketed as 'Hair Metal'... but Pantera was... Look up their first album cover for a good laugh.

I like to think PJ was simply a great rock band. Now they're just a train wreck anytime they're outside of the studio. The EV solo shows are much more impressive.

Did you see any shows this tour? The general impression was that they were great. This is anecdotal, but I took a casual fan to his first show (Brooklyn 2). His favorite bands are arcade fire and the national. He saw all 3 bands in about a month span of each other and thought pjs shows was the best by a fair bit.

Of course you can't take the rm out of rmers so as soon as the tour finished everyone went back to talking about how pearl jam has sucked since 2000/2003/2006

I think "train wreck" is a relative term - are they still a reasonably competent live rock band? For the most part, yes, and most people undoubtedly walk out of the shows happy. The recordings reveal a marked contrast, however, between the band's performances now and as recently as the 2006 tour (which was uniformly excellent, performance-wise). The decline isn't imagined.

Train wreck may be a relative term, but it's still pretty clear that you're talking about something of a disaster.

I think there's a lot of daylight between whether or not they are as good as the 2006 tour (which I agree was the last great tour, and I would go one step further to say that 2005/2006 may have been the two best years of touring they had) and

are they still a reasonably competent live rock band? For the most part, yes,

which makes it sound like pearl jam can go out most nights and not embarrass themselves and that's the end of our expectations. The pearl jam live show experience is still amazing, which is almost universally the reaction people have when they talk about the shows immediately after attending them. The fact that they are not at their peak doesn't change that.

Quite possibly the biggest factor outside of the fact that Eddie can't sing the way he used to (which no one ever notices at the shows, and it's not just because of crowd singalongs) is probably that pearl jam now designs shows and performances around the live experience of being there, and this quite simply just does not translate well to bootlegs. But PJ isn't playing shows to translate to bootlegs. They're playing shows for the audience that is present, not the audience at home. This means different choices for songs, for performance, for the expectations of the audience and what the band needs to do to meet those expectations.


At their best they bridged that gap better than they do right now. I've never been a huge bootleg guy in the first place. For me the definitive versions of songs are almost always the studio versions, especially for PJ. The whole point of the live show is to be there. Bootlegs have rarely if ever captured that energy and experience. Even when they were at their best.

I dont know. I can really put on any 2000 bootleg and be transported to the show and still have an emotional response tot he performances. It truly was a wonderful time.

They were playing different types of shows then, with a different vibe to the performance. And I get preferring that to where they are now. My point is that what they currently do is aiming at something all together different, and it is not something that can be captured on a bootleg effectively, and in some ways it may very well encourage some decisions that simply will not work on a bootleg.

Really my point is that phrases like 'reasonably competent' and 'train wreck' are clearly missing the mark in some way if the near universal reaction of people LEAVING a performance was 'that was amazing.'

stip wrote:the near universal reaction of people LEAVING a performance was 'that was amazing.'

I don't believe this to be true.

Spenno almost fell asleep at Big Day Out show!

Strat wrote:Spenno almost fell asleep at Big Day Out show!

Spenno is the exception that proves every rule. Spenno probably fell asleep at his wedding.

Lament wrote:

stip wrote:the near universal reaction of people LEAVING a performance was 'that was amazing.'

I don't believe this to be true.

I am basing this on my own personal experiences and what I read on this board, but I think it holds up.

Missoula was the first PJ Show I walked out not impressed or believing ti was fantastic. That was a very powerful moment for Strat.

when was that?

stip wrote:when was that?

The 2012 show for Tester.

The last time I brought someone along to see Pearl Jam and they told me "That was amazing" was 2005. I can't remember the last time I was conversing with a non-die hard who had recently seen them and told me it was amazing. No one ever tells me "they were bad," but for the last eight or nine years the reaction has been pretty muted from my experience.

(2005 was the last time I saw them and thought they were incredible as well)

Strat wrote:

stip wrote:when was that?

The 2012 show for Tester.

I hadn't seem then since 2010 prior to this year. And my comments are really only meant to apply to this year's shows.

Lament wrote:The last time I brought someone along to see Pearl Jam and they told me "That was amazing" was 2005. I can't remember the last time I was conversing with a non-die hard who had recently seen them and told me it was amazing. No one ever tells me "they were bad," but for the last eight or nine years the reaction has been pretty muted from my experience.

(2005 was the last time I saw them and thought they were incredible as well)

we're just dueling anecdotal stories, but (I said this in some other thread the other day) I brought a non-diehard to the Brooklyn II show. It was his first time seeing pearl jam. the National and Arcade Fire are his two favorite bands. He saw each of them within a month or so of the PJ show and said that the PJ one was the best of the bunch, by more than a little bit.