Red Mosquito

McParadigm wrote:

stip wrote:

EJ wrote:

McParadigm wrote:Great use of room noise on this record, especially Rearviewmirror. Not a lot of records this heavy utilize that, and they really, really should.

What do you mean by use of room noise? This is one of my favorite sounding PJ albums.

hearing people count down the songs, drumsticks hitting the floor, Little moments that reveal the sound and space and shape of the environment the music is being recorded in.

I think.

It's more about hearing the space that exists around the sound, which sounds like something Tom Waits would say but is really just about setting room mics up a good distance from the instrument. You capture the sound bouncing off the surfaces of the studio, creating a unique type of echo that translates as physical distance. When you listen to a record and it almost feels like you're in the room with the performer (without a binaural approach), it's room sound that is causing that to happen. It's far more commonly utilized on softer or acoustic performances than it is on rock records, where punch and volume are king.

Some of that almost undefinable quality that Rearviewmirror has when it goes into the chord-punch sections of the first half, that never quite translates live, is due to a combination of ringing, open strings and cymbal work in a room-sound heavy recording. On the other hand, what you can sometimes sacrifice with room sound-heavy recordings is presence...a reality which is used to great effect on Ed's voice in Animal.

I think that room noise factor could have helped a lot of Lightning Bolt. Not Backspacer. Nothing can help it.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

stip wrote:

EJ wrote:

McParadigm wrote:Great use of room noise on this record, especially Rearviewmirror. Not a lot of records this heavy utilize that, and they really, really should.

What do you mean by use of room noise? This is one of my favorite sounding PJ albums.

hearing people count down the songs, drumsticks hitting the floor, Little moments that reveal the sound and space and shape of the environment the music is being recorded in.

I think.

It's more about hearing the space that exists around the sound, which sounds like something Tom Waits would say but is really just about setting room mics up a good distance from the instrument. You capture the sound bouncing off the surfaces of the studio, creating a unique type of echo that translates as physical distance. When you listen to a record and it almost feels like you're in the room with the performer (without a binaural approach), it's room sound that is causing that to happen. It's far more commonly utilized on softer or acoustic performances than it is on rock records, where punch and volume are king.

Some of that almost undefinable quality that Rearviewmirror has when it goes into the chord-punch sections of the first half, that never quite translates live, is due to a combination of ringing, open strings and cymbal work in a room-sound heavy recording. On the other hand, what you can sometimes sacrifice with room sound-heavy recordings is presence...a reality which is used to great effect on Ed's voice in Animal.

I think that room noise factor could have helped a lot of Lightning Bolt. Not Backspacer. Nothing can help it.

the entire time I was reading McP's response, i was thinking "God I hate the way lightning bolt sounds"

Rearview Mirror: Although this is not one of my personal favorites, they don't have many better songs. The way the guitars are alternately chunky, thin, shimmering, fuzzy, deep, and shrill. So many great contrasts in such a small space.


I like that buzzing riff in the second verse. The dreamy transition that accelerates into the bridge is excellent and perfectly captures the journey of the song--so when he has his epiphanal moment you feel like you are literally right there with him after having just walked the same steps.

I think insignificance may be the closest they ever came to matching the wall of sound at the end(maybe the end of Corduroy), but they never did it better. The final 35 seconds of this song is probably the best 'just play it as loud as possible' moment in the catalog.

Strat wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

stip wrote:

EJ wrote:

McParadigm wrote:Great use of room noise on this record, especially Rearviewmirror. Not a lot of records this heavy utilize that, and they really, really should.

What do you mean by use of room noise? This is one of my favorite sounding PJ albums.

hearing people count down the songs, drumsticks hitting the floor, Little moments that reveal the sound and space and shape of the environment the music is being recorded in.

I think.

It's more about hearing the space that exists around the sound, which sounds like something Tom Waits would say but is really just about setting room mics up a good distance from the instrument. You capture the sound bouncing off the surfaces of the studio, creating a unique type of echo that translates as physical distance. When you listen to a record and it almost feels like you're in the room with the performer (without a binaural approach), it's room sound that is causing that to happen. It's far more commonly utilized on softer or acoustic performances than it is on rock records, where punch and volume are king.

Some of that almost undefinable quality that Rearviewmirror has when it goes into the chord-punch sections of the first half, that never quite translates live, is due to a combination of ringing, open strings and cymbal work in a room-sound heavy recording. On the other hand, what you can sometimes sacrifice with room sound-heavy recordings is presence...a reality which is used to great effect on Ed's voice in Animal.

I think that room noise factor could have helped a lot of Lightning Bolt. Not Backspacer. Nothing can help it.

the entire time I was reading McP's response, i was thinking "God I hate the way lightning bolt sounds"

Yeah, listening to this album with headphones right now I was thinking 'fuck, I wish lightning bolt was recorded in 1993'.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:I think that room noise factor could have helped a lot of Lightning Bolt. Not Backspacer. Nothing can help it.

One of the issues with room noise is that it isn't algorithmic, so it's harder to control/manipulate/remove. When you need to manipulate/clean up/autotune/heavily compress/retouch your parts after the fact, room noise can be a huge problem for you.

Put simply, room noise is for people who can get a keeper of a performance without a bunch of repair work. Hint hint.

McParadigm wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:I think that room noise factor could have helped a lot of Lightning Bolt. Not Backspacer. Nothing can help it.

One of the issues with room noise is that it isn't algorithmic, so it's harder to control/manipulate/remove. When you need to manipulate/clean up/autotune/heavily compress/retouch your parts after the fact, room noise can be a huge problem for you.

Put simply, room noise is for people who can get a keeper of a performance without a bunch of repair work. Hint hint.

Yeah, I get that. I just think that a few songs on LB, Infallible, Yellow Moon, and LTRP in particular are decent songs that have that over-produced sound to them.

Rats: Like GG, this should be juvenile social commentary, especially with the juxtaposition between eddie's more sinister verses and the heart on sleeve anthematic chorus, but the music pokes fun at the conceit the entire time, and it's a good piece of music. Mike and Stone play off each other so well on this album, and Mike's solos fit great within the songs.

This is one of the weaker outros on a record filled with some excellent ones.

Listening to Rats its another song that feels dated, although I'm reminded why it felt so right at the time.


Small Town: There are days I'd call this the best song on Vs. The lyrics are great, the sentiment is surprisingly mature for this album, Eddie has maybe never sounded better despite the fact that this song is probably one of the songs people would point to in order to highlight what they don't like about him. For better or worse this is maximum vedder.

The guitar is so warm, and even though this song didn't need 3 guitars, everyone finds a tasteful place to plug themselves into. Like Daughter, this is a surprisingly hard hitting song.

The keys buried in the mix for the final verse 'I just want to scream...' are really nice

I love how fat Jeff's bass sounds.

McParadigm wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:I think that room noise factor could have helped a lot of Lightning Bolt. Not Backspacer. Nothing can help it.

One of the issues with room noise is that it isn't algorithmic, so it's harder to control/manipulate/remove. When you need to manipulate/clean up/autotune/heavily compress/retouch your parts after the fact, room noise can be a huge problem for you.

Put simply, room noise is for people who can get a keeper of a performance without a bunch of repair work. Hint hint.

Couldn't you record vocals separately--you need the room noise more for the music, right? I know Eddie was recorded in a booth for at least some songs on Vs.

McParadigm wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:I think that room noise factor could have helped a lot of Lightning Bolt. Not Backspacer. Nothing can help it.

One of the issues with room noise is that it isn't algorithmic, so it's harder to control/manipulate/remove. When you need to manipulate/clean up/autotune/heavily compress/retouch your parts after the fact, room noise can be a huge problem for you.

Put simply, room noise is for people who can get a keeper of a performance without a bunch of repair work. Hint hint.

Fuck Pearl Jam. I agree.

I really like lightning bolt but the fact most of the songs played live sound close to arse ... Makes me like it less.

Leash: Another one of the juvenille songs, but a perfect time capsule for what it felt like to be 16 and listening to this album in 1993. This is absolutely what it felt like. This is a really busy song. Maybe too busy, but I like quite a lot of the parts, and the general fuck it all dismissive tones to the guitar playing, the sneering accents, the way the final solo says 'this is for us' even while the rest of the song was pretty clear that 'this is not for you'. And the 'i am lost' sequence is still an all time favorite.

The drop the leash stuff makes me smile.


Indifference: Platy is wrong. Indifference is a killer song. It's so warm and full and rich for such a chilly, empty, stark song. A set of lyrics that could so easily trip over into almost laughably melodramatic territory (imagine conner oberest singing this) that instead feels like the most profound thing anyone ever told you. Eddie is just so commanding on these early albums, and they picked the right song to really thrust him in front of the music on.

As an aside, I'm glad they play this song with the lights up these days and invite everyone in. They answered the question long ago, and it would be disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

it's easy to forget how good this record it is. It doesn't help that it has that weak stretch between daughter and RVM, and that the RVM--Small Town--Indifference have lesser songs sandwiched between, but even though some of the song writing is either a bit weaker or feels dated the playing and the performances are so good it doesn't matter.

I will occasionally listen to Backspacer or Lightning Bolt and wonder if they'll overtake Vs. But they won't. Those albums feel newer and fresher (because they are) and they are consistently good. But the best moments on Vs. are really commanding some pretty lofty heights.

stip wrote:

Indifference:

As an aside, I'm glad they play this song with the lights up these days and invite everyone in. They answered the question long ago, and it would be disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

I'm not so sure about that.

Spoiler: show

Strat wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:I think that room noise factor could have helped a lot of Lightning Bolt. Not Backspacer. Nothing can help it.

One of the issues with room noise is that it isn't algorithmic, so it's harder to control/manipulate/remove. When you need to manipulate/clean up/autotune/heavily compress/retouch your parts after the fact, room noise can be a huge problem for you.

Put simply, room noise is for people who can get a keeper of a performance without a bunch of repair work. Hint hint.

Fuck Pearl Jam. I agree.

I really like lightning bolt but the fact most of the songs played live sound close to arse ... Makes me like it less.

the youtube videos I saw sounded pretty good--but I've hardly done an exhaustive search

EJ wrote:

stip wrote:

Indifference:

As an aside, I'm glad they play this song with the lights up these days and invite everyone in. They answered the question long ago, and it would be disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

I'm not so sure about that.

Spoiler: show

Yep. The one time I saw that it did not fit the song at all. It's a pretty dark piece, and they'd have to change the song itself for it not to be, I think.

I think this is the best all around Pearl Jam album. It combines all of the things they do best in one package. Some great riffs, killer solos, some heavy rockers, some acoustic stuff, haunting closer. Eddie sounds great. At least 6 classic songs (Go, Animal, Daughter, RVM, Small Town and Indifference) and the other 6 songs are solid as well. They play the shit out of every song, and they all sound good too. (room noise or whatever) The band was tight as hell in 93 after two years of touring with Dave A and this album shows it.

jtmack20 wrote:I think this is the best all around Pearl Jam album. It combines all of the things they do best in one package. Some great riffs, killer solos, some heavy rockers, some acoustic stuff, haunting closer. Eddie sounds great. At least 6 classic songs (Go, Animal, Daughter, RVM, Small Town and Indifference) and the other 6 songs are solid as well. They play the shit out of every song, and they all sound good too. (room noise or whatever) The band was tight as hell in 93 after two years of touring with Dave A and this album shows it.

Those 6 are all 5* tracks. And you're spot on regarding how tight they were as a band. Everyone was locked in and so in tune with the music. They all played as if their lives depended on it. Even BoB's life depended on this record.

McParadigm is so right about the room sounds and their use on this record. The opening jam invites you in, gives you time to take a seat and settle in before setting off. It's like the bar coming down into place and the gentle departure of a roller coaster. Each player in integral on this album. Dave A takes it by a nose as his playing, his snare sound, his kick, his hi-hat transitions from tight to explosive....he commands this album. His snare is so tight that you need the room sound to give any form of life on earth. He is a taught elastic band, a hamstring on the edge of rupturing on which the entire band but mostly Ed walk, balancing above certain death. I fucking love this album (but it's a pity that 3-4 of the tracks haven't aged as well as the others).

LetMeSleep wrote:I fucking love this album

Their best, in my opinion.

McParadigm wrote:Probably the pinnacle of unthinking, underwritten cathartically howled Pearl Jam.

This.

It captures the band at their most instinctual and least calculated and is all the stronger for it.

Hi everyone. Long time lurker, new to the board. (I'll recount my story of being kicked out of the Ten Club for criticizing the dog leashes another time. Nice to be here.) Vs. was the album that sold me on PJ. Like many folks, I heard and enjoyed the first record, but it wasn't in my top ten that year. There was a lot of incredible music coming out at that time and Ten was overproduced and blatantly commercial to my ears. Vs. was a game changer. It's hard to appreciate now what a radical departure this record was for them, what a huge left turn. I always thought part of it had to do with their self consciousness over Kurt Cobain's critiques of them as jock rock metal heshers. They basically did away with most of the sing-songy commercial material that weighed down Ten. (Daughter aside, but a "feminist" song from a band of bros was a left turn in its own regard.) What remained was less commercial, less accessible, far more raw, and just a whole lot more interesting.

I love the opening one-two punch of "Go" and "Animal," but the songs that still get me today are "Dissident" and "Glorified G," mainly because they're really sort of anti-commercial and weird songs. This was light years from the lighters-aloft anthem rawk of "Ten." I also have a lingering fondness for "Rats," because, well, that bass line, but also because that song and "Dirty Frank" are really the only two songs that demonstrate what a huge influence the Red Hot Chili Peppers were on the young PJ. They never really pursued this sound, but "Rats" and "Dirty Frank" are sort of remnants of an influence that they basically chose to ignore. That's probably a good thing in retrospect, but I think the RHCP influence on the band gets forgotten.

And yeah, Dave A. just eats this material alive. It's widely discussed, but this is one of those bands where the different drummers almost completely impact the overall sound. Can't think of too many bands where changing the drummer had as much impact, unless you're talking about Kenny Jones/Keith Moon or something.

Today, Vs. is not my favorite PJ record but it was a head-spinner at the time, a massive step up that forever made me take them seriously as musicians, as artists, as a band capable of tremendous power. Even more amazingly was how they took the greatness of Vs. to yet another level on Vitalogy. A rare feat, indeed.

There's a reason why we still discuss a band whose current output consists primarily of cringeworthy dad rock, and that's the undeniable greatness of records like "Vs." People can and do debate the merits of everything from "No Code" to "Lightning Bolt," but you'd be hard pressed to find any PJ fan who doesn't appreciate "Vs."

welcome to the board

Birds in Hell wrote:

LetMeSleep wrote:I fucking love this album

Their best, in my opinion.

McParadigm wrote:Probably the pinnacle of unthinking, underwritten cathartically howled Pearl Jam.

This.

It captures the band at their most instinctual and least calculated and is all the stronger for it.

Was working at target part time as a teenager when this came out. Got called to the audio section as the shipment of CDs arrived a day early and the manager new I was a massive fan.

I got to take my copy straight out of the box the day before release and listen to it that night non stop.

Vs is the best album I have ever heard period.