Red Mosquito

Strat wrote:I still think there is an aspect to #3 at play with fans of bands. I know that will probably get a few eye rolls but there is something to be said for the romanticizing aspect of it all.

Number 3 is a big part of it. Eddie used to have a voice that could transform and elevate a song.He doesn't now. So all those somewhat plodding mid-tempo rockers that Eddie used to be able to take to a better place now just become pablum.

They can still do it live but I think anyone who is differentiating their recent studio output from Matchbox 20's is not being truthful. The last album sounded exactly like what it what. A thrown together mish mash of ideas and sounds. Recording over a vast amount of time with no thought or care of producing a cohesive sounding album. At this point I think they'd be way better off just releasing singles as they record them. No ones really going to listen to them or take them to heart, so might as well just throw them out there as they're dcompleted. I don't think they have the heart or desire to put in the time to make a truly good, let lone great album at this time. If a cover of a song off the singer's most recent solo album isn't a sign of ideas have run out, I don't know what is.

I listened to lightning bolt two weeks ago. I still love it.

McParadigm wrote:

Strat wrote:I still think there is an aspect to #3 at play with fans of bands. I know that will probably get a few eye rolls but there is something to be said for the romanticizing aspect of it all.

It probably does to some extent, but most of the fan disengagement is probably down to what Quad said...sitting around rehashing the past, not adding anything to today.

Artists who continue to write and create at a pace greater than "every four years if something else doesn't come up" are pretty safe, unless their new works are just completely unlistenably dull. They're in a much better spot...they're more likely to create the occasional work (accidentally or otherwise) that does something unusual or new, they probably feel more comfortable taking the odd chance or having a record that doesn't produce a hit, and it certainly isn't as infuriating when they put out a Lightning Bolt because that Lightning Bolt is this year's Lightning Bolt, not the only output they manage to have in a 7 year period.

Having said that, this is also true

McParadigm wrote:Wait...how often does that one come up?

"Caught a bolt 'a lightnin'...cursed the day he let it go." #PearlJam #Vitalogy #Nothingman

Not as often as that dull Nothingman demo does on PJ Radio.

Yeah, this was pretty good.

broken iris wrote:

McParadigm wrote:Wait...how often does that one come up?

"Caught a bolt 'a lightnin'...cursed the day he let it go." #PearlJam #Vitalogy #Nothingman

Not as often as that dull Nothingman demo does on PJ Radio.

It's not like they managed to take the dull out of the finished version either.

Wow! I just logged back in. These replies are hilarious.

I guess a lot of me is sad that they approach the band more or less like a meal ticket these days. It's what makes everything else they do legitimate. I wish they still had something to say, but I guess they don't.

Quadrophenia wrote:Wow! I just logged back in. These replies are hilarious.

I guess a lot of me is sad that they approach the band more or less like a meal ticket these days. It's what makes everything else they do legitimate. I wish they still had something to say, but I guess they don't.

Welcome back.

I don't really know how much the band has changed... and maybe that's the issue. The fan base grew up and the band didn't. Maybe that's why their focus on the punk sound of their youth doesn't produce material we respond to as well.

broken iris wrote:I don't really know how much the band has changed... and maybe that's the issue. The fan base grew up and the band didn't. Maybe that's why their focus on the punk sound of their youth doesn't produce material we respond to as well.

Wow. I don't agree with that at all.

The band has changed more than the music has; I think that's the problem. And they have such a "here's what a new Pearl Jam record has to be" mentality that even they feel a bit uninspired by the whole thing...they have to let the producer craft and curate the fledgling songs into being. Start with a rocker, drop the lead single somewhere around track 3 or 4, be a bit softer in the second half, and don't forget to end on a ballad. Alright, I'm going home.

Plenty of people continue to make raucous music as they age, and do it exceptionally well, but you don't get to be the band that is radiantly propulsive and the one that is cradling its precious reputation. And you have to feel that propulsion, somewhere. Pearl Jam rockers don't work anymore because they don't sound like their hearts are beating all that fast. They're actually kind of relaxed (Getaway), or they try to disguise a lack of personal connection behind 'think piece' lyrics (Mind Your Manners), or they just worry too much about how much you're going to like them (My Father's Son). At the end of the day, I just don't think they're a band that has that edge anymore...and instead of accepting that they're twiddling their thumbs, hoping that you won't notice.

I'd love to see them go into a studio and not have a tour already lined up, or not allow themselves to go "Ehh, that was alright. Let's get back together in two years and see how we feel about it." Make a record that actually feels like a Pearl Jam record, specifically because they didn't set out to make yet another Pearl Jam record. Take their time. Find something new. Say what you want about the new U2 album, but the band at least wanted to make something great. They spent four years ebb-and-flowing about what direction to go in, scrapping all manner of material in the process. And whether or not it's a good record, it's at least a record by a band that sounds fully engaged in the material, who really wants to believe that this is the best and most passionate moment of their career. And because of that, it sounds more like U2 than Lightning Bolt sounds like Pearl Jam.

I used to believe that, I don't anymore. I don't think they evolved their sound and message as their lives progressed, unlike U2 whose have gone all over the place with their music, and now they feel trapped and are quickly frustrated by the results of trying to hold themselves to some absurd artistic purity standard that only 1991 Pearl Jam could pull off (and just barely).

McParadigm wrote:

broken iris wrote:I don't really know how much the band has changed... and maybe that's the issue. The fan base grew up and the band didn't. Maybe that's why their focus on the punk sound of their youth doesn't produce material we respond to as well.

Wow. I don't agree with that at all.

The band has changed more than the music has; I think that's the problem. And they have such a "here's what a new Pearl Jam record has to be" mentality that even they feel a bit uninspired by the whole thing...they have to let the producer craft and curate the fledgling songs into being. Start with a rocker, drop the lead single somewhere around track 3 or 4, be a bit softer in the second half, and don't forget to end on a ballad. Alright, I'm going home.

Plenty of people continue to make raucous music as they age, and do it exceptionally well, but you don't get to be the band that is radiantly propulsive and the one that is cradling its precious reputation. And you have to feel that propulsion, somewhere. Pearl Jam rockers don't work anymore because they don't sound like their hearts are beating all that fast. They're actually kind of relaxed (Getaway), or they try to disguise a lack of personal connection behind 'think piece' lyrics (Mind Your Manners), or they just worry too much about how much you're going to like them (My Father's Son). At the end of the day, I just don't think they're a band that has that edge anymore...and instead of accepting that they're twiddling their thumbs, hoping that you won't notice.

I'd love to see them go into a studio and not have a tour already lined up, or not allow themselves to go "Ehh, that was alright. Let's get back together in two years and see how we feel about it." Make a record that actually feels like a Pearl Jam record, specifically because they didn't set out to make yet another Pearl Jam record. Take their time. Find something new. Say what you want about the new U2 album, but the band at least wanted to make something great. They spent four years ebb-and-flowing about what direction to go in, scrapping all manner of material in the process. And whether or not it's a good record, it's at least a record by a band that sounds fully engaged in the material, who really wants to believe that this is the best and most passionate moment of their career. And because of that, it sounds more like U2 than Lightning Bolt sounds like Pearl Jam.

It's not like they're making any mystery of having changed, hell they brag about it.

I believe that their current way of writing, which according to them is something like most of the band comes up with ideas ( they aren't conformable enough to call them songs)play around with them for a while and then provide that idea to Ed and/or BoB to complete in a fashion that is to the rest of the band's liking.

They've never really been a band that was exceptionally strong in the creativity department. Most of them still describes their writing as a either an attempt to write a song in the style of a different band or picking a handful of riffs and trying to make something out of them. It's not a very creative premise.

They dumbed their sound down and the way they talk about how they write does confirm it imo. They're basically sound like an andropause version of what they were in 1992 while completely erasing what they used to be from 93 to 99.

McParadigm wrote:

broken iris wrote:I don't really know how much the band has changed... and maybe that's the issue. The fan base grew up and the band didn't. Maybe that's why their focus on the punk sound of their youth doesn't produce material we respond to as well.

Wow. I don't agree with that at all.

The band has changed more than the music has; I think that's the problem. And they have such a "here's what a new Pearl Jam record has to be" mentality that even they feel a bit uninspired by the whole thing...they have to let the producer craft and curate the fledgling songs into being. Start with a rocker, drop the lead single somewhere around track 3 or 4, be a bit softer in the second half, and don't forget to end on a ballad. Alright, I'm going home.

Plenty of people continue to make raucous music as they age, and do it exceptionally well, but you don't get to be the band that is radiantly propulsive and the one that is cradling its precious reputation. And you have to feel that propulsion, somewhere. Pearl Jam rockers don't work anymore because they don't sound like their hearts are beating all that fast. They're actually kind of relaxed (Getaway), or they try to disguise a lack of personal connection behind 'think piece' lyrics (Mind Your Manners), or they just worry too much about how much you're going to like them (My Father's Son). At the end of the day, I just don't think they're a band that has that edge anymore...and instead of accepting that they're twiddling their thumbs, hoping that you won't notice.

I'd love to see them go into a studio and not have a tour already lined up, or not allow themselves to go "Ehh, that was alright. Let's get back together in two years and see how we feel about it." Make a record that actually feels like a Pearl Jam record, specifically because they didn't set out to make yet another Pearl Jam record. Take their time. Find something new. Say what you want about the new U2 album, but the band at least wanted to make something great. They spent four years ebb-and-flowing about what direction to go in, scrapping all manner of material in the process. And whether or not it's a good record, it's at least a record by a band that sounds fully engaged in the material, who really wants to believe that this is the best and most passionate moment of their career. And because of that, it sounds more like U2 than Lightning Bolt sounds like Pearl Jam.

You make some really good points. Especially about U2. I'm not a fan of them at all but I really like the new album. As staged as their promotion for the thing has been it's some of the most authentic music I've ever heard from them.

It's pretty clear PJ's best creative period started with Vitalogy and ended with Binaural. That's my take on it. Riot Act was my first sense of the band feeling tired. Production quality aside I'm in the minority thinking Avocado was a step back in the right direction. To me it's their best work of the "modern" PJ era. Although I'm not a Backspacer hater it definitely signaled a weaker trend for the band. Will the band find their spark? It's easy to say no but on the other hand they seem to be the most content they've ever been with each other and their legacy so maybe they take that energy and go off and do a couple really focused, interesting records. It's totally possible.

Strat wrote:The 10Club social media bullshit really is embarrassing.

"I took a drive today"

*attempt at super deep/intense looking concert photo*

Terrible.

Just terrible.