Red Mosquito

@SkitchP wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:Barry Sanders Averaged 17 yards per game more than Emmitt Smith.

15 if you count those bullshit 2 years in Arizona.
but then again, if you dont count those Emmitt Smith and his "longevity" played a whopping 3 seasons more than Barry. This isn't a Bobby Orr/Sandy Koufax longevity disparity.

That last year in AZ was not "bullshit". He actually played very well with a terrible O line.

I'm really not trying to discredit Barry...

Growing up watching Emmitt, and hearing all the comparisons, it just irks me how underrated E is, and it's mainly due to having so many other great players around him and because he wasn't as pretty with his skills as Barry. Emmitt had so much more as a blocker, a pass catcher, he ran downfield as opposed to always making dramatic cut moves (although he had his share)... and for god's sake, he's the all time rushing leader!

For me, though, it's all about the spirit, his heart, perseverance, determination, sticktuitiveness, etc.

For me, it's so close that the intangibles put him over the top... not to mention I'm a homer.

@SkitchP wrote:Which "no passing game to speak of?" You mean the ones with Herman Moore/Brett Perriman/Johnny Morton ALL having more than 1000 yards in the same season?

Or the one where Herman Moore set an NFL record for receptions?

Or the one where both Perriman and Moore had more than 100 receptions?

touché

Iholdthepain wrote:I'm really not trying to discredit Barry...

Growing up watching Emmitt, and hearing all the comparisons, it just irks me how underrated E is, and it's mainly due to having so many other great players around him and because he wasn't as pretty with his skills as Barry. Emmitt had so much more as a blocker, a pass catcher, he ran downfield as opposed to always making dramatic cut moves (although he had his share)... and for god's sake, he's the all time rushing leader!

For me, though, it's all about the spirit, his heart, perseverance, determination, sticktuitiveness, etc.

For me, it's so close that the intangibles put him over the top... not to mention I'm a homer.

He averaged almost a full yard per carry less than Barry Sanders.
He had his last rushing title at the age of 26.
He averaged 20 yards per game rushing less than Barry Sanders.
He averaged 34.3 Receptions per season. Barry Averaged over 35.
He averaged 215 Receiving Yards per season. Barry Averaged 290.


And you cant in one sentence dismiss the "played for good teams, good oline" arguments and then go on about the value of intangibles.

turned2black wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:Barry Sanders Averaged 17 yards per game more than Emmitt Smith.

15 if you count those bullshit 2 years in Arizona.
but then again, if you dont count those Emmitt Smith and his "longevity" played a whopping 3 seasons more than Barry. This isn't a Bobby Orr/Sandy Koufax longevity disparity.

That last year in AZ was not "bullshit". He actually played very well with a terrible O line.

I just didnt want to have thip point out that the AZ years hurt his averages.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying about Emmitt being the more complete back, but Payton played that part better than Smith did. Fast, agile, flashy...so physical, always looking to hit a LB in the mouth even though he didn't have the size. He could go up the gut, cut back, or go over the top with such explosiveness. He could make the catches. He could throw the ball. I fucking love how he would palm the ball while he ran through traffic.

Yes I'm a homer, but as far as the rushing title, he played 36 less games than Emmitt and averaged more ypg, so I don't think it's the end all be all.

So you can pretend that Barry's publicity is all about the "pretty runs" but the fact is statistically he is pretty superior.


You're basically making the Jack Morris Hall of Fame argument.

Hell, Barry career AVERAGE for yards per season would win 8 rushing titles in the last 30 years.

turned2black wrote:Barry did things that were more impressive than Jordan.

getting bad haircuts is the only thing i can think of.

If we want to talk about anecdotal things, lets talk to Rod Woodson's knee and see who it thinks was better.

Payton could run with speed, quickness, and with power. He could also pass, catch and throw. It's really not a debate for me.

Walter Payton is definitely a much better debate than Emmitt Smith, that's for sure.

He may not be the best, but I fucking love the Diesel!

The only real argument that Emmitt has in this fight is TDs scored. Seasons with 18, 21, 25 rushing TDs is fucking impressive no matter how good his teammates were.

When you look at Barry's stats they could be even better if Wayne Fontes had not taken him out in goal line situations so much.

turned2black wrote:1. Barry
2. Brown
3. Payton
4. Campbell
5. Emmitt

Campbell's 1980 season is probably the most underrated season by any player.

I think I agree with this word for word.

Pretty sure that 1980 season for EC was his rookie year, yes?

Pound for pound Gale Sayers belongs in the conversation.

With 2-3 more big years I think Adrian Peterson is up there. He is the only guy I have ever seen (keep in mind I am only 34) that could have gone straight from HS to the NFL and held his own. Just a freak of nature.

turned2black wrote:The only real argument that Emmitt has in this fight is TDs scored. Seasons with 18, 21, 25 rushing TDs is fucking impressive no matter how good his teammates were.

agreed, but Thip hasn't even brought that up :/


I do think that's where the offensive line part ends up playing a huge role.

@SkitchP wrote:

turned2black wrote:The only real argument that Emmitt has in this fight is TDs scored. Seasons with 18, 21, 25 rushing TDs is fucking impressive no matter how good his teammates were.

agreed, but Thip hasn't even brought that up :/


I do think that's where the offensive line part ends up playing a huge role.

Barry had some good O lines. Mid 90s with Glover and Lomas Brown come to mind. Nothing like Emmitt had though.

Payton
Sanders
Brown
Peterson
Smith

Peterson may have screwed his chances to climb higher with his off-field crap, but he passes the eye test and the numbers test.

BigRedLedbetter wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:

turned2black wrote:The only real argument that Emmitt has in this fight is TDs scored. Seasons with 18, 21, 25 rushing TDs is fucking impressive no matter how good his teammates were.

agreed, but Thip hasn't even brought that up :/


I do think that's where the offensive line part ends up playing a huge role.

Barry had some good O lines. Mid 90s with Glover and Lomas Brown come to mind. Nothing like Emmitt had though.

They were underrated for sure as a group, and Lomas and Glover (lomas in particular) were never maulers like Newton, etc. They were efficient pass blockers. The best line they had was Brown-Utley-Glover-Andolsek-(eric) Sanders I think. Lets not forget the value of Johnston either as a blocker for Emmitt, and as a potential other backfield option in goalline situations, making it harder to key on just one back.

I mean I loved Touchdown Tommy Vardell as much as the next guy, but come on.