Red Mosquito

Strat wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

McParadigm wrote:It's hard to fault the paranoid worry that it might...might...be a bomb.

It's pretty hard not to fault the approach they took to addressing that.

Question. If it was some suburbia white "christian" kid that brought it, do you think the reaction would have been the same? I tend to think so only because most school shootings in the past where white dudes. This is just a bad combo of the kid's ethnicity/religion and people in schools being overly cautious because of school shootings.

So the only way this would be a non-story is if it was an Asian kid.

I'm just saying, if the story didn't tell me that it was a muslim kid from Sudan, I would still say that looks more like something suspicious than it looks like a clock. I get the school safety side of it, but what they did to him afterwards was a violation of human rights.

I just feel like if they really thought it was a bomb they would have handled it differently. Bomb squad, school on lock down....i dont know. I wasn't in there but confiscating it, keeping it in plce custody, arresting him and interrogating him...

Also, I know you are agree im just continuing with my ramblings kthanks.

It really comes down to identifying rational priorities.

First in line is to ensure that the school is safe. If you have the mystery item and know whose it is, you either feel that safety is established or you evacuate the school. Not evacuating the school, at that point, is tantamount to declaring that no remaining danger is believed to exist.

Once safety is established, your next priority is to not risk traumatizing a child who is in your custody, ever, and especially when there is NOT certainty that he is guilty of anything.

Lastly, you have no reason to not involve the parents of a child that age in the information gathering stages (this admittedly overlaps with the 'no undue trauma' rule). This is a minor, who (again) is not known to be guilty of anything.

.

McParadigm wrote:

Strat wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

McParadigm wrote:It's hard to fault the paranoid worry that it might...might...be a bomb.

It's pretty hard not to fault the approach they took to addressing that.

Question. If it was some suburbia white "christian" kid that brought it, do you think the reaction would have been the same? I tend to think so only because most school shootings in the past where white dudes. This is just a bad combo of the kid's ethnicity/religion and people in schools being overly cautious because of school shootings.

So the only way this would be a non-story is if it was an Asian kid.

I'm just saying, if the story didn't tell me that it was a muslim kid from Sudan, I would still say that looks more like something suspicious than it looks like a clock. I get the school safety side of it, but what they did to him afterwards was a violation of human rights.

I just feel like if they really thought it was a bomb they would have handled it differently. Bomb squad, school on lock down....i dont know. I wasn't in there but confiscating it, keeping it in plce custody, arresting him and interrogating him...

Also, I know you are agree im just continuing with my ramblings kthanks.

It really comes down to identifying rational priorities.

First in line is to ensure that the school is safe. If you have the mystery item and know whose it is, you either feel that safety is established or you evacuate the school. Not evacuating the school, at that point, is tantamount to declaring that no remaining danger is believed to exist.

Once safety is established, your next priority is to not risk traumatizing a child who is in your custody, ever, and especially when there is NOT certainty that he is guilty of anything.

Lastly, you have no reason to not involve the parents of a child that age in the information gathering stages (this admittedly overlaps with the 'no undue trauma' rule). This is a minor, who (again) is not known to be guilty of anything.

I don't really get the folks defending the school administration/ police. If they truly thought it was a bomb, then by all means question the kid immediately. They never really thought it was a bomb, which is the problem.

A reasonable principal would tell the kid why their shitty clock looks a bit ambiguous and that in the future they should clean up their devices or knock off this attention seeking behavior. Perhaps suggest that Ahmed try out for track or something.

The school really dropped the ball with their response to it..

simple schoolboy wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Strat wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

McParadigm wrote:It's hard to fault the paranoid worry that it might...might...be a bomb.

It's pretty hard not to fault the approach they took to addressing that.

Question. If it was some suburbia white "christian" kid that brought it, do you think the reaction would have been the same? I tend to think so only because most school shootings in the past where white dudes. This is just a bad combo of the kid's ethnicity/religion and people in schools being overly cautious because of school shootings.

So the only way this would be a non-story is if it was an Asian kid.

I'm just saying, if the story didn't tell me that it was a muslim kid from Sudan, I would still say that looks more like something suspicious than it looks like a clock. I get the school safety side of it, but what they did to him afterwards was a violation of human rights.

I just feel like if they really thought it was a bomb they would have handled it differently. Bomb squad, school on lock down....i dont know. I wasn't in there but confiscating it, keeping it in plce custody, arresting him and interrogating him...

Also, I know you are agree im just continuing with my ramblings kthanks.

It really comes down to identifying rational priorities.

First in line is to ensure that the school is safe. If you have the mystery item and know whose it is, you either feel that safety is established or you evacuate the school. Not evacuating the school, at that point, is tantamount to declaring that no remaining danger is believed to exist.

Once safety is established, your next priority is to not risk traumatizing a child who is in your custody, ever, and especially when there is NOT certainty that he is guilty of anything.

Lastly, you have no reason to not involve the parents of a child that age in the information gathering stages (this admittedly overlaps with the 'no undue trauma' rule). This is a minor, who (again) is not known to be guilty of anything.

I don't really get the folks defending the school administration/ police. If they truly thought it was a bomb, then by all means question the kid immediately. They never really thought it was a bomb, which is the problem.

A reasonable principal would tell the kid why their shitty clock looks a bit ambiguous and that in the future they should clean up their devices or knock off this attention seeking behavior. Perhaps suggest that Ahmed try out for track or something.

Stop showing interest in science and technology and just try out for track! I mean, this is a school god damnit!

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015 ... MP=soc_567

Richard Dawkins(yes that one) is now accusing Ahmed of fraud.

I'm not even copying the link that guys a long established wanker

Dawkins is such a terrible figurehead for atheism.

dimejinky99 wrote:Richard Dawkins(yes that one) is now accusing Ahmed of fraud.

I'm not even copying the link that guys a long established wanker

Are you referring to the link in the post directly above yours?

I think as cynical as you may want to be at assessing Ahmed's intentions with the pencil case clock, you can never justify the reaction it got. Even if there was something not so innocent behind it the reaction was about punishing (beyond what is even legal) a child and not protecting the children on the campus.

Most of what I'm hearing and reading is that he just wouldn't explain the clock once he started getting questioned about it.

Such as ...

Teacher: What is this?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: Ahmed, what is this?
Ahmed: a clock
Teacher: What kind of clock?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: did you make it?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: What the fuck is your problem?
Ahmed: -

I think they called the cops b/c he was a douchebag.

.

B wrote:Most of what I'm hearing and reading is that he just wouldn't explain the clock once he started getting questioned about it.

Such as ...

Teacher: What is this?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: Ahmed, what is this?
Ahmed: a clock
Teacher: What kind of clock?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: did you make it?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: What the fuck is your problem?
Ahmed: -

I think they called the cops b/c he was a douchebag.

This is how kids his age respond to pretty much anything though.

Mine wrote:I think as cynical as you may want to be at assessing Ahmed's intentions with the pencil case clock, you can never justify the reaction it got. Even if there was something not so innocent behind it the reaction was about punishing (beyond what is even legal) a child and not protecting the children on the campus.

If the administrators present couldn't resolve this then why are they employed at all? We might save money by just replacing all the principals with police officers, as they tend to be the ones that resolve fairly mundane disciplinary issues.

B wrote:Most of what I'm hearing and reading is that he just wouldn't explain the clock once he started getting questioned about it.

Such as ...

Teacher: What is this?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: Ahmed, what is this?
Ahmed: a clock
Teacher: What kind of clock?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: did you make it?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: What the fuck is your problem?
Ahmed: -

I think they called the cops b/c he was a douchebag.

Isn't this how the police said he acted with them though, not the teacher? Also worth noting, it was the 2nd teacher who saw the clock that initiated the whole thing, not the 1st.

simple schoolboy wrote:

Mine wrote:I think as cynical as you may want to be at assessing Ahmed's intentions with the pencil case clock, you can never justify the reaction it got. Even if there was something not so innocent behind it the reaction was about punishing (beyond what is even legal) a child and not protecting the children on the campus.

If the administrators present couldn't resolve this then why are they employed at all? We might save money by just replacing all the principals with police officers, as they tend to be the ones that resolve fairly mundane disciplinary issues.

The fucked up thing is while they did nothing to indicate anybody seriously considered the thing a bomb, they still treated him like a pseudo terrorist.

Orpheus wrote:

B wrote:Most of what I'm hearing and reading is that he just wouldn't explain the clock once he started getting questioned about it.

Such as ...

Teacher: What is this?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: Ahmed, what is this?
Ahmed: a clock
Teacher: What kind of clock?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: did you make it?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: What the fuck is your problem?
Ahmed: -

I think they called the cops b/c he was a douchebag.

This is how kids his age respond to pretty much anything though.

Teachers should call the cops on more kids.

B wrote:Teachers should call the cops on more kids.

I remember we had one kid who had joined the gang his older brother was in, and they'd both stopped going to school. Mom was tiny, surprisingly old for a mother of kids that age, and spoke really broken English. Dad was dead.

When she couldn't get them to go to school, she told them that she would report them to the cops if they didn't go. They didn't go, so she followed through and contacted the police. They came to her house, threatened to arrest her and take them away if she didn't start making them come to school, and gave her a fine. They left before the kids woke up.

Maybe if they'd done something really bad, like taken apart a store bought clock, they would have finally called down the thunder.

Orpheus wrote:

B wrote:Most of what I'm hearing and reading is that he just wouldn't explain the clock once he started getting questioned about it.

Such as ...

Teacher: What is this?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: Ahmed, what is this?
Ahmed: a clock
Teacher: What kind of clock?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: did you make it?
Ahmed: -
Teacher: What the fuck is your problem?
Ahmed: -

I think they called the cops b/c he was a douchebag.

This is how kids his age respond to pretty much anything though.

Especially timid or autistic ones. Also, I think anybody who gets asked a question like "what kind of clock?"

Reverse Engineering Ahmed Mohamed’s Clock… and Ourselves.
by Anthony - posted 1:23 pm, September 17, 2015
http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/201 ... ourselves/

So there you have it folks, Ahmed Mohamed did not invent, nor build a clock. He took apart an existing clock, and transplanted the guts into a pencil box, and claimed it was his own creation. It all seems really fishy to me.

If we accept the story about “inventing” an alarm clock is made up, as I think I’ve made a pretty good case for, it’s fair to wonder what other parts of the story might be made up, not reported factually by the media, or at least, exaggerated.

So again, I’m pointing all this out – about the specifics of the clock – not to pick on the poor kid. I’m picking on us, our culture, and our media. I don’t even care about the clock itself at this point.

Ahmed was clearly doing something other than just showing off a clock he made. Sounds to me like he was pulling a little prank, seeing if he could get people to think it was a bomb or something. When he got caught with it by an adult, he just said "I made a clock", and was hoping it was going to go away. It's classic teenage cockiness in full glory.

Now, should they have led him away in cuffs and arrested him? Absolutely not. I did lots of stupid shit as a teenager, pulled pranks that could have got me in serious trouble. They should have just called his parents and gave him a week's detention.

As is usual with these types of stories that go from zero to viral in 24 hours, the truth is probably hidden in the middle somewhere. And neither side of the story is all the way good, nor all the way bad.