Remasters of Vs, Vitalogy- better?

[Birds in Hell]

(requoting for the new page)

All bands, when they reach a certain point, provided they have the material to support it, should do something similar to Bob Dylan's Bootleg Series or Neil Young's Archives (I'm thinking of the single disc releases more than the mammoth 19 CD box set thing, which was too expensive for the amount of previously released material it contained, but even so). It keeps the catalog tidy and de-cluttered, and provides invaluable illumination to the contemporaneous releases to people who are interested.

Unfortunately, at this point, Pearl Jam's official discography is a heaping mess because of all the live material they've put out and all the "repairs" they've made to previously existing archival recordings. They would do well to have a tape archivist like Dick Latvala, someone to rummage through their vaults and pick the good stuff but actively ban the band from any involvement in the process. (For the record, I'm thinking this would be a job for someone like ridleybradout or Cameronia, not someone like Cameron Crowe or Brendan O'Brien.)

They would do well to have a tape archivist like Dick Latvala, someone to sort through their archives but actively ban the band from any involvement in the process.

"Oh Beeeeaaaaaaaaaaaa
Oh Beeeeeaaaaaaaaaaayaaaaa!"

The fact that nobody said "you sure that's how you want it, Ed?..." (or, at least, nobody listened) doesn't inspire confidence that these guys will ever be hands-off enough to allow that to happen, but I live in hope.

I had to go back and check this out again, just to remind myself how dumb it was.



2:43 is particularly cringe-inducing. Where did they pull that lower-pitched "bwaaaaaay" from? It really sounds terrible.

[Fuzzcharger]

2:43 is particularly cringe-inducing. Where did they pull that lower-pitched "bwaaaaaay" from? It really sounds terrible.

That really is a massive stinker of an edit.

[Blenheim Augustine]

All bands, when they reach a certain point, provided they have the material to support it, should do something similar to Bob Dylan's Bootleg Series

Except that very few people except Bob Dylan really warrant it. I mean how many people have unreleased songs like Blind Willie McTell, Series of Dreams and Dignity...just from one recording session? Also the alternative versions of songs often give a completely different take. The live concerts are either pieces of rock/folk history or are incredible compilations of genius (the Rolling Thunder bootleg is unbelievably good). Pearl Jam is great but I don't see that they are on this type of level.

I think what Pearl Jam has done has been good - I'm not sure what else they could do for the first three albums. I don't know what "some kind of rarities/outtakes/demos collection" would include since they have released anything that is worth releasing from that period. The remixing of Ten was worthwhile and the remastering of Vs/Vitalogy, while unremarkable, is welcome but completely unessential. The inclusion of the unplugged DVD and the Orpheum Show was a good addition, despite the changes to the unplugged concert and the omission of RITFW.

Lost Dogs provided a good bounty of unreleased (albeit doctored) material. I agree that the approach to Lost Dogs was annoying, although I don't think that they even had final versions for some of the songs (I could be wrong). Taking the vocal off Brother was ridiculous, the version of Alone is inferior, and I have no idea why they would bother rerecording U.

I like the suggestions of a remixed Binaural (which was an awkward compromise between BoB and Tchad Blake) and a remixed / remastered Avocado as well as the Avocado and Backspacer outtakes. Given the band's record for omitting songs, there might be some gems. As far as live goes, it is really the 95-98 period that needs improving.

[darth_vedder]

Unfortunately, at this point, Pearl Jam's official discography is a heaping mess because of all the live material they've put out and all the "repairs" they've made to previously existing archival recordings. They would do well to have a tape archivist like Dick Latvala, someone to rummage through their vaults and pick the good stuff but actively ban the band from any involvement in the process. (For the record, I'm thinking this would be a job for someone like ridleybradout or Cameronia, not someone like Cameron Crowe or Brendan O'Brien.)

I would love for Cameronia to get this job. Like "Dick's Picks" for the Dead, Cameronia can make volumes of what he digs. At this point, I think he knows better than the band.

[darth_vedder]

All bands, when they reach a certain point, provided they have the material to support it, should do something similar to Bob Dylan's Bootleg Series

Except that very few people except Bob Dylan really warrant it. I mean how many people have unreleased songs like Blind Willie McTell, Series of Dreams and Dignity...just from one recording session? Also the alternative versions of songs often give a completely different take. The live concerts are either pieces of rock/folk history or are incredible compilations of genius (the Rolling Thunder bootleg is unbelievably good). Pearl Jam is great but I don't see that they are on this type of level.

I think what Pearl Jam has done has been good - I'm not sure what else they could do for the first three albums. I don't know what "some kind of rarities/outtakes/demos collection" would include since they have released anything that is worth releasing from that period. The remixing of Ten was worthwhile and the remastering of Vs/Vitalogy, while unremarkable, is welcome but completely unessential. The inclusion of the unplugged DVD and the Orpheum Show was a good addition, despite the changes to the unplugged concert and the omission of RITFW.

Lost Dogs provided a good bounty of unreleased (albeit doctored) material. I agree that the approach to Lost Dogs was annoying, although I don't think that they even had final versions for some of the songs (I could be wrong). Taking the vocal off Brother was ridiculous, the version of Alone is inferior, and I have no idea why they would bother rerecording U.

I like the suggestions of a remixed Binaural (which was an awkward compromise between BoB and Tchad Blake) and a remixed / remastered Avocado as well as the Avocado and Backspacer outtakes. Given the band's record for omitting songs, there might be some gems. As far as live goes, it is really the 95-98 period that needs improving.

I want to hear Binaural the way it was supposed to. I doubt they ever release it, and I'm not sure they recorded all the songs using the binaural technique, but if they did, they need to release it, and put it wax!

Releasing vault shows from '94 to '98 would be really good too. I know there are various boots and whatnot, but I want quality sounding shows with Jack behind the kit.

A remastered / remixed Avocado would be nice too. Warm up the sound, get rid of that cold sterile sound on it, and I bet this one moves up the rankings list for a lot of us.

Hell, I'd settle if they simply just reissue the stupid things. The fact that you can't find No Code, Yield, Binaural and RA for under $300 sucks. Just fucking press some more guys! Aren't they supposed to be a band for the fans? Well, the fans want wax dammit, and don't want to pay hundreds of dollars for it!

[Kevin Davis]

Except that very few people except Bob Dylan really warrant it. I mean how many people have unreleased songs like Blind Willie McTell, Series of Dreams and Dignity...just from one recording session?

Not to get all semantic on you, but these songs were not from one recording session. "Blind Willie McTell" was from the Infidels sessions in 1983; "Series of Dreams" (which sucks, in my opinion) and "Dignity" are from the Oh Mercy sessions in 1989, and "Dignity" was not originally released on the Bootleg Series, but rather a Greatest Hits album.

Obviously not all bands have made the historical impact of Bob Dylan, and not all bands will have the same quality of vaulted material (I agree with you that PJ's most worthwhile stuff, outtake-wise, is probably already out). What I was really getting at was that I wish all bands would explore more direct avenues for releasing archival material rather than stuffing it into dolled-up rewrappings of albums most fans have already paid for. I would greatly preferred to have purchased the Orpheum show, for example, as a reasonably priced single CD than as a tack-on to a $30 box set containing slightly-to-unnoticably improved versions of two albums I already paid for fifteen years ago. I would rather the bonus tracks from the Ten/Vs./Vitalogy remasters ("Brother," "Hold On," "Cready Stomp," etc.) have been released on a standalone "Bootleg Series"-type release than as fan bait on reissues of albums I already owned. It would have been far from their best album but it would have been a tidier, more accessible way to release the material than the gimmicky, free-prize-in-the-cereal-box manner in which it's currently available.

I love "Lost Dogs," by the way. I generally prefer the original versions of the doctored songs but overall it would have been a great "Bootleg Series Volume 1." The PJ20 soundtrack, the Vic show, the Orpheum show, the Drop in the Park show, the Unplugged (hopefully not edited), the studio outtakes as compiled on a single album--those all would have made viable additions to the canon, if not as essential to an historian as "Live 1966." Keeping them a part of the same discographical series (to me, anyway, just from looking at artists who've done it this way) seems to be the most navigable way of archiving the material.

[Blenheim Augustine]

Except that very few people except Bob Dylan really warrant it. I mean how many people have unreleased songs like Blind Willie McTell, Series of Dreams and Dignity...just from one recording session?

Not to get all semantic on you, but these songs were not from one recording session. "Blind Willie McTell" was from the Infidels sessions in 1983; "Series of Dreams" (which sucks, in my opinion) and "Dignity" are from the Oh Mercy sessions in 1989, and "Dignity" was not originally released on the Bootleg Series, but rather a Greatest Hits album.

Correct on two counts - although the demo for Dignity is on Vol 8. I'm not sure how Series of Dreams could suck though; perhaps you never fold your umbrella.

What I was really getting at was that I wish all bands would explore more direct avenues for releasing archival material rather than stuffing it into dolled-up rewrappings of albums most fans have already paid for. I would greatly preferred to have purchased the Orpheum show, for example, as a reasonably priced single CD than as a tack-on to a $30 box set containing slightly-to-unnoticably improved versions of two albums I already paid for fifteen years ago. I would rather the bonus tracks from the Ten/Vs./Vitalogy remasters ("Brother," "Hold On," "Cready Stomp," etc.) have been released on a standalone "Bootleg Series"-type release than as fan bait on reissues of albums I already owned. It would have been far from their best album but it would have been a tidier, more accessible way to release the material than the gimmicky, free-prize-in-the-cereal-box manner in which it's currently available.

I agree - yeah I get this point - was it possible to get these individually through iTunes? Not ideal. Not sure I would have chosen to get Cready Stomp though...I thought that was them saying "we really don't have anything else up our sleeves".

[warehouse]

(requoting for the new page)

All bands, when they reach a certain point, provided they have the material to support it, should do something similar to Bob Dylan's Bootleg Series or Neil Young's Archives (I'm thinking of the single disc releases more than the mammoth 19 CD box set thing, which was too expensive for the amount of previously released material it contained, but even so). It keeps the catalog tidy and de-cluttered, and provides invaluable illumination to the contemporaneous releases to people who are interested.

Unfortunately, at this point, Pearl Jam's official discography is a heaping mess because of all the live material they've put out and all the "repairs" they've made to previously existing archival recordings. They would do well to have a tape archivist like Dick Latvala, someone to rummage through their vaults and pick the good stuff but actively ban the band from any involvement in the process. (For the record, I'm thinking this would be a job for someone like ridleybradout or Cameronia, not someone like Cameron Crowe or Brendan O'Brien.)

They would do well to have a tape archivist like Dick Latvala, someone to sort through their archives but actively ban the band from any involvement in the process.

"Oh Beeeeaaaaaaaaaaaa
Oh Beeeeeaaaaaaaaaaayaaaaa!"

The fact that nobody said "you sure that's how you want it, Ed?..." (or, at least, nobody listened) doesn't inspire confidence that these guys will ever be hands-off enough to allow that to happen, but I live in hope.

I had to go back and check this out again, just to remind myself how dumb it was.



2:43 is particularly cringe-inducing. Where did they pull that lower-pitched "bwaaaaaay" from? It really sounds terrible.

jesus that was terrible. the last "beeeaaahhh" was embarrisingly bad

[Kevin Davis]

Correct on two counts - although the demo for Dignity is on Vol 8. I'm not sure how Series of Dreams could suck though; perhaps you never fold your umbrella.

I just think it's a dull song, musically and lyrically. For all the "deep song" vibes it tries to put off, it seems like nothing really ever happens in it--which is characteristic of the worst "Oh Mercy" material, songs like "What Was It You Wanted?" and "Disease of Conceit" that take 4-6 minutes of tuneless ramble to say nothing. The music sounds like some ambient detritus left behind by U2 during the "Unforgettable Fire" sessions that Danny Lanois had been keeping on ice for just such an occasion.

Really, this is...not up there with Dylan's better work:

I was thinking of a series of dreams
Where nothing comes up to the top
Everything stays down where it's wounded
And comes to a permanent stop
Wasn't thinking of anything specific
Like in a dream, when someone wakes up and screams
Nothing too very scientific
Just thinking of a series of dreams

Thinking of a series of dreams
Where the time and the tempo fly
And there's no exit in any direction
'Cept the one that you can't see with your eyes
Wasn't making any great connection
Wasn't falling for any intricate scheme
Nothing that would pass inspection
Just thinking of a series of dreams

Dreams where the umbrella is folded
Into the path you are hurled
And the cards are no good that you're holding
Unless they're from another world

In one, numbers were burning
In another, I witnessed a crime
In one, I was running, and in another
All I seemed to be doing was climb
Wasn't looking for any special assistance
Not going to any great extremes
I'd already gone the distance
Just thinking of a series of dreams

Nice to have another Dylan fan on board, regardless. Were you here previously under another name?

[southp]

They would do well to have a tape archivist like Dick Latvala, someone to sort through their archives but actively ban the band from any involvement in the process.

"Oh Beeeeaaaaaaaaaaaa
Oh Beeeeeaaaaaaaaaaayaaaaa!"

The fact that nobody said "you sure that's how you want it, Ed?..." (or, at least, nobody listened) doesn't inspire confidence that these guys will ever be hands-off enough to allow that to happen, but I live in hope.

Maybe they're just big George Lucas fans.

[Norah]

They would do well to have a tape archivist like Dick Latvala, someone to sort through their archives but actively ban the band from any involvement in the process.

"Oh Beeeeaaaaaaaaaaaa
Oh Beeeeeaaaaaaaaaaayaaaaa!"

The fact that nobody said "you sure that's how you want it, Ed?..." (or, at least, nobody listened) doesn't inspire confidence that these guys will ever be hands-off enough to allow that to happen, but I live in hope.

Maybe they're just big George Lucas fans.

[numbers]

why does everyone think there are Backspacer outtakes? I know McCready talked about an EP, but everything about this band right now says they show up and once they have 12 or so songs, regardless of how good they are, they call it quits.

[Fuzzcharger]

I think what Pearl Jam has done has been good - I'm not sure what else they could do for the first three albums. I don't know what "some kind of rarities/outtakes/demos collection" would include since they have released anything that is worth releasing from that period. The remixing of Ten was worthwhile and the remastering of Vs/Vitalogy, while unremarkable, is welcome but completely unessential. The inclusion of the unplugged DVD and the Orpheum Show was a good addition, despite the changes to the unplugged concert and the omission of RITFW.

I liked the boxsets for the most part too. The packaging on Ten was better than Vs/Vitalogy for me but I guess that was also because the content was coming from the most significant period in their history. More DVD footage would be good though. That lame editing is a major buzz killer though. How they think people wont notice is a bit silly.

[Blenheim Augustine]

Correct on two counts - although the demo for Dignity is on Vol 8. I'm not sure how Series of Dreams could suck though; perhaps you never fold your umbrella.

I just think it's a dull song, musically and lyrically. For all the "deep song" vibes it tries to put off, it seems like nothing really ever happens in it--which is characteristic of the worst "Oh Mercy" material, songs like "What Was It You Wanted?" and "Disease of Conceit" that take 4-6 minutes of tuneless ramble to say nothing. The music sounds like some ambient detritus left behind by U2 during the "Unforgettable Fire" sessions that Danny Lanois had been keeping on ice for just such an occasion.

Nice to have another Dylan fan on board, regardless. Were you here previously under another name?

Yes. Leopold.

Those other two songs are pissy. I like Series of Dreams because it feels like a dream. It could go on for 62 minutes and I'd still only think I'd been listening to it for 2 minutes. I think the good thing about it is that it isn't pretentious - just thinking of a series of dreams. And I always liked the bit about no exit. I like the phrasing. I like the video too. It's not Idiot Wind but it's better than Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts.

Anyway I suppose I'm meant to talk about PJ box sets here...although I imagine if a new Pearl Jam track gets played tomorrow this thread will be forgotten.

[McParadigm]

Yeah, Series of Dreams is pretty damn good. The space and splash give it a sort of cinematic quality, but it's the percussion that puts it over, I think.

[Kevin Davis]

It's one of the few beloved Dylan songs that I understand absolutely none of the love for.