Red Mosquito

Kevin Davis wrote:it has that icky "'80's hangover" sound that was so prevalent in early '90's mainstream rock

That's the word I was looking for. "Mainstream".

stip wrote:it was, and it is really good. But for whatever reason I just can't bring myself to care about it anymore. I do occasionally get reminders about why I did, however.

Same here. I really enjoy it when it's on, and I can point out a bunch of stuff I like about it at the time. But it never gets a mention as one of my favourites in conversation. It just never comes up. Maybe the lyrics don't really engage me; it just seems to be one of those social issue songs that I can't grasp why Ed would've written it. Maybe someone could enlighten me, but it just doesn't feel as necessary as, say, Alive or RVM or even Rats (who I've always taken as metaphor for politicians).

Interesting the 80's MOR feeling comes up. It's this song, not GTF, that I see as being the biggest blueprint for ATW... even if it was subconscious. ATW was lyrically more like GTF, but musically it was more like this one.

Kevin Davis wrote:some of those slightly off-color arpeggios of Stone's that count among the most musically engaging features of early Pearl Jam (think "Garden" or "Release")

Also this.
I love it when he does (did) that. "Once", "Alone" had those too -- a gem to listen to.

Lounge Lizard wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:it has that icky "'80's hangover" sound that was so prevalent in early '90's mainstream rock

That's the word I was looking for. "Mainstream".

That mainstream 90s sound didn't really come about until after this was already released. I'm not saying there's anything cutting edge here, but its fair to consider who was creating this sound that eventually became loathsome.

EJ wrote:

Lounge Lizard wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:it has that icky "'80's hangover" sound that was so prevalent in early '90's mainstream rock

That's the word I was looking for. "Mainstream".

That mainstream 90s sound didn't really come about until after this was already released. I'm not saying there's anything cutting edge here, but its fair to consider who was creating this sound that eventually became loathsome.

I don't know man, it sounded dated already when it came out. Somehow.

EJ wrote:That mainstream 90s sound didn't really come about until after this was already released. I'm not saying there's anything cutting edge here, but its fair to consider who was creating this sound that eventually became loathsome.

Maybe I misspoke--I don't think it sounds like mainstream '90's rock; I think it sounds like mainstream '80's rock. I think there was a weird period of transition in the early '90's where a lot of records still possessed, in varying degrees, pungent remnants of that signature '80's production approach, despite the fact that the music was veering further and further into a realm where that production approach was no longer appropriate (not that it was ever really something to celebrate, mind you, but it did fit with the bombastic excess of the decade).

Kevin Davis wrote:

EJ wrote:That mainstream 90s sound didn't really come about until after this was already released. I'm not saying there's anything cutting edge here, but its fair to consider who was creating this sound that eventually became loathsome.

Maybe I misspoke--I don't think it sounds like mainstream '90's rock; I think it sounds like mainstream '80's rock. I think there was a weird period of transition in the early '90's where a lot of records still possessed, in varying degrees, pungent remnants of that signature '80's production approach, despite the fact that the music was veering further and further into a realm where that production approach was no longer appropriate (not that it was ever really something to celebrate, mind you, but it did fit with the bombastic excess of the decade).

I think Ten contained all of this, and Vs. was the album in which they began to shed it, in order to then make Vitalogy.

harmless wrote:I think Ten contained all of this, and Vs. was the album in which they began to shed it, in order to then make Vitalogy.

I bet they would have produced Ten way differently a year or two later. Wouldn't you say the guitars sound kind of strangled on Once, EvenFlow and Jeremy?

once for sure.

Lounge Lizard wrote:

EJ wrote:

Lounge Lizard wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:it has that icky "'80's hangover" sound that was so prevalent in early '90's mainstream rock

That's the word I was looking for. "Mainstream".

That mainstream 90s sound didn't really come about until after this was already released. I'm not saying there's anything cutting edge here, but its fair to consider who was creating this sound that eventually became loathsome.

I don't know man, it sounded dated already when it came out. Somehow.

I don't disagree with that. I was more commenting on this being lumped in with that 90s sound. The bandwagoners really started copying this sound about the time Vs was released. I agree, though, I don't think this song would've made the record a year later. But, at the time, it was definitely a bridge between Ten & Vs.

I'm not really sure what 'strangled' means in the context, but overproduced and overly metallic? Yes. But I loved that then. Now I'm not a huge fan, but I still love it for nostalgic reasons. Problem is, although the new Ten Redux made the guitars and everything else a bit closer to the sound of their more current live sound, I don't really like their current live sound much either. So it was interesting to see how that album might sound now, but that's it. I think I only listened to it twice. It strikes me that the songs on Vs. are not vastly different to the songs on Ten. It's just the production that's different really. Vitalogy was almost the album that began to redesign their sound significantly. It was almost the perfect set up for No Code.

harmless wrote:I'm not really sure what 'strangled' means in the context, but overproduced and overly metallic? Yes. But I loved that then. Now I'm not a huge fan, but I still love it for nostalgic reasons. Problem is, although the new Ten Redux made the guitars and everything else a bit closer to the sound of their more current live sound, I don't really like their current live sound much either. So it was interesting to see how that album might sound now, but that's it. I think I only listened to it twice. It strikes me that the songs on Vs. are not vastly different to the songs on Ten. It's just the production that's different really. Vitalogy was almost the album that began to redesign their sound significantly. It was almost the perfect set up for No Code.

Well you see Vitalogy was a low point for me. I love Vs and Yield, everything else is below these two.

Lounge Lizard wrote:

harmless wrote:I'm not really sure what 'strangled' means in the context, but overproduced and overly metallic? Yes. But I loved that then. Now I'm not a huge fan, but I still love it for nostalgic reasons. Problem is, although the new Ten Redux made the guitars and everything else a bit closer to the sound of their more current live sound, I don't really like their current live sound much either. So it was interesting to see how that album might sound now, but that's it. I think I only listened to it twice. It strikes me that the songs on Vs. are not vastly different to the songs on Ten. It's just the production that's different really. Vitalogy was almost the album that began to redesign their sound significantly. It was almost the perfect set up for No Code.

Well you see Vitalogy was a low point for me. I love Vs and Yield, everything else is below these two.

Vitalogy is my favourite PJ album, closely followed by No Code, Riot Act and Yield. I think. It changes. The only ones I think are objectively weaker are the last two.

I don't know of any other song in their playlist that alternates between my like/don't lists as much.
The vault 3 version is really, really good though.

When I first listened to No Code I was like "OKaaaaaaay... Well, its my favorite band Pearl Jam, alright, I'm supposed to like it, am I not?"
In My Tree is probably the only song out of it that makes my daily rotation

Lounge Lizard wrote:

harmless wrote:I'm not really sure what 'strangled' means in the context, but overproduced and overly metallic? Yes. But I loved that then. Now I'm not a huge fan, but I still love it for nostalgic reasons. Problem is, although the new Ten Redux made the guitars and everything else a bit closer to the sound of their more current live sound, I don't really like their current live sound much either. So it was interesting to see how that album might sound now, but that's it. I think I only listened to it twice. It strikes me that the songs on Vs. are not vastly different to the songs on Ten. It's just the production that's different really. Vitalogy was almost the album that began to redesign their sound significantly. It was almost the perfect set up for No Code.

Well you see Vitalogy was a low point for me. I love Vs and Yield, everything else is below these two.

I don't understand how that is even possible...

This song to me is a poor man's Alive.

It's the sound that every PJ wannabe band seemed to rip-off.

Never been a fan of this one. I uses to loathe it though, now I just don't like it.

I think I need to restate my original point about this song. On the album, Mike's guitar lead sort of makes the song a little grating to my ears, I was never a big fan of it. All you can hear is Mike's screaming guitar and the riff underneath gets flooded out. When listening to the unplugged version, Stone's guitar comes to the forefront and I realized how much I freakin' love it. I'll never hear the song the same again. It's a much prettier song than I realized. Maybe I just like the free-form improv feel.

Btw, I'm just listening to an audio rip of the DVD. I'm pretty sure that part is also on the DVD version that came with the Ten Redux box set?

I really love the wailing riff from Mike. I also love the more-or-less same thing he did on the studio version of RM.