Red Mosquito

I think there are way worse lyrics elsewhere on the album

yep

I find the lyrics very effective for this song.

theplatypus wrote:These are not "Inside Job" level bad. A couple of groaners here and there sure

Yeah, this. There's some clunkers, but there are definitely some bigger clunkers in the catalog.

tragabigzanda wrote:I don't think there are any bad lyrics on this album. They're all par for the course at this point for Ed -- some ocean references, some nature stuff, some cosmos stuff, some weary traveler stuff

I'm not talking about the themes or the sentiments. What I really bristle at with a lot of latter-day PJ songs is the construction of some lines. Ed just has a natural tendency towards verbosity and clunkiness of language, and this shows up all through the album, even in songs that are otherwise lyrically powerful. See, for example, "Sadness comes, with it a sea of tears, would some love be best had it not appeared"

theplatypus wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:I don't think there are any bad lyrics on this album. They're all par for the course at this point for Ed -- some ocean references, some nature stuff, some cosmos stuff, some weary traveler stuff

I'm not talking about the themes or the sentiments. What I really bristle at with a lot of latter-day PJ songs is the construction of some lines. Ed just has a natural tendency towards verbosity and clunkiness of language, and this shows up all through the album, even in songs that are otherwise lyrically powerful. See, for example, "Sadness comes, with it a sea of tears, would some love be best had it not appeared"

That's been a staple of his writing almost from jump, accordingly. It leads to his best and worst work.

if I was going to be kind to that line, I would say it's an attempt to subvert the cliche "better to have loved and lost, than never to have lost at all"; but Ed is punching above his weight with Shakespeare

theplatypus wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:I don't think there are any bad lyrics on this album. They're all par for the course at this point for Ed -- some ocean references, some nature stuff, some cosmos stuff, some weary traveler stuff

I'm not talking about the themes or the sentiments. What I really bristle at with a lot of latter-day PJ songs is the construction of some lines. Ed just has a natural tendency towards verbosity and clunkiness of language, and this shows up all through the album, even in songs that are otherwise lyrically powerful. See, for example, "Sadness comes, with it a sea of tears, would some love be best had it not appeared"

I guess I like the clunkiness. If the lyrics always flow together perfectly I find they may get a bit stale/boring/predictable for me.

Ms Harmless wrote:if I was going to be kind to that line, I would say it's an attempt to subvert the cliche "better to have loved and lost, than never to have lost at all"; but Ed is punching above his weight with Shakespeare

I thought Brett Michaels wrote that

it’s an obscure Poison reference kind of day in the ol’ Stipelman household

stip wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:if I was going to be kind to that line, I would say it's an attempt to subvert the cliche "better to have loved and lost, than never to have lost at all"; but Ed is punching above his weight with Shakespeare

I thought Brett Michaels wrote that

haha I just looked it up, it's Tennyson

Ms Harmless wrote:I think the lyrics are being unfairly maligned here, maybe because some of us have no need for the message

I think you could just as easily flip this and say that identifying with the message makes one more likely to conflate the content of the message with good writing. This happens with overtly topical music a lot, people stuggling to separate the quality of the work itself from the degree to which they agree or disagree with what it's saying.

I don't think it's deafness to the song's message that is causing me to think, for example, that "If you grow tired of the game/Hit the road towards the clouds/Find the groove in the sound" is an obvious, uncreative metaphor. The acid trip line just feels overly literal and inappropriate for the song. There may be worse lyrics elsewhere on the album, but for whatever reason these are the ones that have jumped out at me. And I still enjoy the song despite them.

Kevin Davis wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I think the lyrics are being unfairly maligned here, maybe because some of us have no need for the message

I think you could just as easily flip this and say that identifying with the message makes you more likely to conflate the content of the message with good writing. This happens with overtly topical music a lot, people stuggling to separate the quality of the work itself from the degree to which they agree or disagree with what it's saying.

I don't think it's deafness to the song's message that is causing me to think, for example, that "If you grow tired of the game/Hit the road towards the clouds/Find the groove in the sound" is an obvious, uncreative metaphor. The acid trip line just feels overly literal and inappropriate for the song. There may be worse lyrics elsewhere on the album, but for whatever reason these are the ones that have jumped out at me. And I still enjoy the song despite them.

I think PJ (and rock music in general) has a ceiling when it comes to lyrical creativity and originality; I go to them for emotional resonance

if the lyrics here don't grab you, I totally understand, but this song resonates with me emotionally and that's all I need from it; I don't think there's a single decent Pearl Jam song that doesn't make use of cliches

Ms Harmless wrote:I think PJ (and rock music in general) has a ceiling when it comes to lyrical creativity and originality

Probably, but this song isn't even sort of hitting it.

Again, no disrespect if you dig the lyrics or identify with them. We all react differently to songs for different reasons, this is just one of the things that holds this song back for me. And, again, I do still enjoy it.

Kevin Davis wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I think PJ (and rock music in general) has a ceiling when it comes to lyrical creativity and originality

Probably, but this song isn't even sort of hitting it.

maybe, I just don't care much

I also don't care if the song is "topical" (whether or not it speaks to social distancing is not why I need it right now)

at least it isn't "I used to be crustacean in an underwater nation"

in my opinion, it's not cliche that's the problem, it's more the mixture of abstract and concrete imagery; but there isn't a single PJ song without that issue ("three crooked hearts, swirls all around")

this is how I feel

Ms Harmless wrote:at least it isn't "I used to be crustacean in an underwater nation"

Man, I love that tune.