Red Mosquito

tragabigzanda wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

joostone wrote:Whenever the Peppers, FF, Qotsa, Green Day or Metallica has a new record out everybody seems to know. They actually promote their shit.

I think the net impact of the records are about the same, though -- important to fans of the band, maybe of some passing interest to people who follow new releases in general, but not especially relevant to anyone else. Whatever the sales/streaming numbers of these records are, differences between them seem pretty academic, especially given how unreliably these numbers actually track engagement.

Beyond that, though -- and maybe I am oversimplifying things -- wouldn't Dark Matter naturally be at a disadvantage on a cumulative sales/streaming chart just by being the newest record?

I’d argue — based on assumptions, but the facts may not support this — that QOTSA is an outlier that had always served more of a niche fanbase; historically played smaller venues than the other bands; and has mostly been on indie labels (outside of their stint on Interscope during Rated R, which was commercially successful, likely providing funding for Homme’s Pink Duck studio, which he has since sold).

Point being that the economics behind QOTSA have always been smaller, and probably Josh doesn’t have an entire house dedicated to random memorabilia like Ed; and thus the band’s financial model is likely more sustainably manageable from a money in-money out perspective, unlike the other bands that have a bunch of properties, a bunch of mouths to feed, philanthropic orgs, and a variety of levers they have to keep pulling — with diminishing creative returns, IMO — to keep all the lights on.

Yeah, you're right. QOTSA is not in the same league as the other bands I mentioned. But like I said before. PJ's EU 24 tour was a disaster. They only played a handfull of shows (had to cancel 3) and the shows didnt even sold out. London, Berlin and Barcelona sold terribly. The Foo Fighters would sell out those venues in a second. But the FF is all marketing if you ask me. They really really know how to marked their crappy new albums. PJ just doesnt play that game. But they are not playing the promotion game at all for Gigaton and Black Matter. I think they only worked for 2 or 3 days promoting Dark Matter (Zane Lowe, Stern, and maybe 3 podcasts). When the Peppers have a new album out you can read their interviews in every rock magazine in the world. You have TV performances, videos etc. PJ always played their own game and it sure helped them. But maybe not anymore... they seem to loose some oversea markets (EU).

Pearl Jam have nothing like the awareness and popularity of Foo Fighters or Chilis in the UK. They're a minnow compared to FF. If the Foos have a new album out it's everywhere. Might be different on the Continent. But for the UK, PJ are almost a large cult band rather than a mainstream rock behemoth. Spurs stadium sold poorly for a number of reasons, but a big one is that there simply aren't enough hardcore fans willing to pay the prices they were demanding. Foos would have sold it out even at those ridiculous figures. So PJ won't have album sales anything like those other bands over here.

Its because the Foos really really know how to sell themselves. How to promote an album etc. And it just pays off.

tragabigzanda wrote:“Our drummer OD’d on a potent cocktail of pharmaceuticals, alcohol, and hard drugs, and our singer is a philanderer. Who wants to rawk?! (Sky Is a Neighborhood clip plays, tickets sell out)

What a world

Sex…drugs…and Rawk n roll!!!

Cant wait till the next Foos album. It will be recorded in all the places where he and his wife had their first dates. It will be accompanied by a romcom called 'Im sorry'. Dave will be a spokesman for mental health in men. After he explained Oprah in a new netflix special how much he learned about himself whilst in therapy. In every occasion he mentions hoe this influenced the new album. Which will still sound exactly like every other FF record. And he will still sell out Wembley. In part because of a promotion stunt where bastard Kids get a free ticket.

joostone wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

joostone wrote:Whenever the Peppers, FF, Qotsa, Green Day or Metallica has a new record out everybody seems to know. They actually promote their shit.

I think the net impact of the records are about the same, though -- important to fans of the band, maybe of some passing interest to people who follow new releases in general, but not especially relevant to anyone else. Whatever the sales/streaming numbers of these records are, differences between them seem pretty academic, especially given how unreliably these numbers actually track engagement.

Beyond that, though -- and maybe I am oversimplifying things -- wouldn't Dark Matter naturally be at a disadvantage on a cumulative sales/streaming chart just by being the newest record?

I’d argue — based on assumptions, but the facts may not support this — that QOTSA is an outlier that had always served more of a niche fanbase; historically played smaller venues than the other bands; and has mostly been on indie labels (outside of their stint on Interscope during Rated R, which was commercially successful, likely providing funding for Homme’s Pink Duck studio, which he has since sold).

Point being that the economics behind QOTSA have always been smaller, and probably Josh doesn’t have an entire house dedicated to random memorabilia like Ed; and thus the band’s financial model is likely more sustainably manageable from a money in-money out perspective, unlike the other bands that have a bunch of properties, a bunch of mouths to feed, philanthropic orgs, and a variety of levers they have to keep pulling — with diminishing creative returns, IMO — to keep all the lights on.

Yeah, you're right. QOTSA is not in the same league as the other bands I mentioned. But like I said before. PJ's EU 24 tour was a disaster. They only played a handfull of shows (had to cancel 3) and the shows didnt even sold out. London, Berlin and Barcelona sold terribly. The Foo Fighters would sell out those venues in a second. But the FF is all marketing if you ask me. They really really know how to marked their crappy new albums. PJ just doesnt play that game. But they are not playing the promotion game at all for Gigaton and Black Matter. I think they only worked for 2 or 3 days promoting Dark Matter (Zane Lowe, Stern, and maybe 3 podcasts). When the Peppers have a new album out you can read their interviews in every rock magazine in the world. You have TV performances, videos etc. PJ always played their own game and it sure helped them. But maybe not anymore... they seem to loose some oversea markets (EU).

People say those shows didn't sell well but then you look at the crowds and they seemed really good. Also, just from paying attention at the time, it seems like any ticket sale issues boiled down to 1) The price of the tickets being abnormally high and 2) The announcement of the concerts being later than usual. There were also some ancillary things like one of the London shows being at the same time as an England Euro soccer match. As always, the context on this stuff matters a lot.

Also, let's be honest, 90% of what matters for an American band like PJ is how they do in the US. And those shows all sold out.

Sorry, Europeans. I don't make the rules.

So is this close?

is The Jolly Rodger close? I hope not

I’ve been wanting an all-acoustic album from Pearl
Jam. I think it would be a way for them to age gracefully. They can’t rock hard forever.

sweeper wrote:Also, let's be honest, 90% of what matters for an American band like PJ is how they do in the US. And those shows all sold out.

Sorry, Europeans. I don't make the rules.

True, but that doesn't change the fact that the EU tour was half baked and sold poorly. Also..Dark Matter sold poorly with about half of what Gigaton sold. Those are warning signs and yet they still didn't promote the record.

I think I just wanted to see full promotional stuff. I always like to see this era specific stuff. I would love to see Dark Matter tracks on Colbert, Kimmel, Fallon and SNL. I wished we had way more interviews in printed press. They havent done that in 12 years! And since their sales are really dropping it just made a bit sense.

I would like to see more promotion too but I don't know that album sales are indicative of anything. Everyone's albums sales are going down. You could say the same thing about Green Day, Foo Fighters, etc. It's easier than ever to get what you want for free. I almost had to go out of my way to buy Dark Matter just because I felt bad not paying for it.

sweeper wrote:I would like to see more promotion too but I don't know that album sales are indicative of anything. Everyone's albums sales are going down. You could say the same thing about Green Day, Foo Fighters, etc. It's easier than ever to get what you want for free. I almost had to go out of my way to buy Dark Matter just because I felt bad not paying for it.

You're right about album sales. But I was comparing DM sales to Gigaton sales. DM sold about half of what Gigaton sold. And the DM numbers also had all these colored variants, so those numbers are even higher than they should be.

joostone wrote:

sweeper wrote:I would like to see more promotion too but I don't know that album sales are indicative of anything. Everyone's albums sales are going down. You could say the same thing about Green Day, Foo Fighters, etc. It's easier than ever to get what you want for free. I almost had to go out of my way to buy Dark Matter just because I felt bad not paying for it.

You're right about album sales. But I was comparing DM sales to Gigaton sales. DM sold about half of what Gigaton sold. And the DM numbers also had all these colored variants, so those numbers are even higher than they should be.

Gigaton has been out for several years now, so it has had time to rack up some sales, including with extra bumps from things like the "Gigaton Live" edition where they stuck a bonus CD with the album so many fans will buy the album again.

In the first week, DM moved just a little below what Gigaton did and both albums were #5. Over a few years its numbers will probably get relatively close to Gigaton's.

On a related note, I noticed Pearl Jam isn’t “ranked” on Spotify. Not sure long long the list is, but I expected them to be in the top few hundred just based on legacy listeners alone.

Sloppy Dupree wrote:I’ve been wanting an all-acoustic album from Pearl
Jam. I think it would be a way for them to age gracefully. They can’t rock hard forever.

:andrew wotman: oh really??

i agree with you though

When it comes to album sales, Spotify plays, etc I would also not discount the extent to which Ed has pissed off a decent portion of the potential audience with his anti-Trump viewpoints. Ed doesn't just have viewpoints on politics, he's pretty divisive with it as well. I'm sure most of us either agree with his stances or don't care about politics. However, the political stuff, and especially that right wing Trump crowd, is increasingly a weirdly fanatical group that can't handle any criticism of their guy.

igotworms wrote:Pearl Jam have nothing like the awareness and popularity of Foo Fighters or Chilis in the UK. They're a minnow compared to FF. If the Foos have a new album out it's everywhere. Might be different on the Continent. But for the UK, PJ are almost a large cult band rather than a mainstream rock behemoth. Spurs stadium sold poorly for a number of reasons, but a big one is that there simply aren't enough hardcore fans willing to pay the prices they were demanding. Foos would have sold it out even at those ridiculous figures. So PJ won't have album sales anything like those other bands over here.

This is technically correct but Foo fighters spend an inordinate amount of money on promotion.
Millions and millions. On billboards and posters and radio / media ads etc. and it’s a barrage months before a new album or tour even happens.

Worms point is completely incorrect otherwise, particularly on the hardcore fans aspect. Foos audience are transient day time radio listeners in the main. They don’t have anything like the amount of touring fan hardcore base that PJ do. Their gigs are mostly populated by people that go to one concert a year with their kid and buy the T-shirt. And still, latent Nirvana fans.

It isn’t a competition for audience in any real sense, PJ don’t have to do all those promo things. But the ticket price shitshow is the main aspect in touring and it bites PJ in the arse because of all their previous moral stands on it.