Red Mosquito

Harry Lime wrote:

Calling him "The People's Pope," Time magazine on Wednesday named Pope Francis its Person of the Year.

uh oh. A small faction of RM is irate.

It's amazing how many apparent hardened atheists have come around to him just because they've read a few articles.

Srsly. I mean, he eats his boogers. Gross.

I empathize with your sentiment about missing when you believed in God. The idea of a greater power for the good of/in us all was comforting. There's just so many mental obstacles for me now...

I haven't had any interest in the "Man of the Year" since they wussed out on Bin Laden.

Seriously.

Kaius wrote:Srsly. I mean, he eats his boogers. Gross.

I empathize with your sentiment about missing when you believed in God. The idea of a greater power for the good of/in us all was comforting. There's just so many mental obstacles for me now...

The idea, the experience, the community, the security. It was once everything.

"But that is not the question. What are we doing here, that is the question. And we are blessed in this, that we happen to know the answer. Yes, in the immense confusion one thing alone is clear. We are waiting for harmless to come -- ”

I have two born again evangelicals in one of my classes, and they talk about being saved all the time during break. It's fascinating. They positively glow when they talk about it.

stip wrote:I have two born again evangelicals in one of my classes, and they talk about being saved all the time during break. It's fascinating. They positively glow when they talk about it.

Spoiler: show

I'm gonna save you, fucker.

I am FILLED with christ love.

The faith comes from within. No one outside should tell you how to think or feel. As Carl Jung put it , "I don't believe, I just know." It might take years before one "knows". It could hit you in your teens or hit you when you're 70. And then you build your life around that, whether it be with your family, work or whatever. Whatever faith I have, I owe a lot to.

And I find it amusing when atheists become atheists because they are angry they were "brainwashed" while growing up in a religious family, as if that should be the place where faith comes from.

And I find it amusing when atheists become atheists because they are angry they were "brainwashed" while growing up in a religious family, as if that should be the place where faith comes from.

I've never met anybody who became an atheist for this reason.

McParadigm wrote:

And I find it amusing when atheists become atheists because they are angry they were "brainwashed" while growing up in a religious family, as if that should be the place where faith comes from.

I've never met anybody who became an atheist for this reason.

I know one. I can't tell what fuels him more, what his "logic & reason" told him, or the resentment towards his family.

Harry Lime wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

And I find it amusing when atheists become atheists because they are angry they were "brainwashed" while growing up in a religious family, as if that should be the place where faith comes from.

I've never met anybody who became an atheist for this reason.

I know one. I can't tell what fuels him more, what his "logic & reason" told him, or the resentment towards his family.

Ah. Well, I know one Catholic whose faith exists purely to give him another reason to feel smug and superior to others, but I don't see that as anything other than one guy I know who is an asshole first, and a Catholic in reaction to that....not the other way around.

I've referenced him in the past, but I fall in line with Dostoevsky's thinking. He might have classified himself as an agnostic though, I don't know. Anyway, he tried desperately to rid himself of the notion of God, but the more he tried the more that desire to believe influenced him. I don't think we should take that desire for granted. Shouldn't there be something said for one's desire to see ther loved ones again? To be happier? It's a knee-jerk, innate response to traumas in life, yet, we scoff at it. Why? As David Foster Wallace once said of faith in God, it's the only form of worship "that won't eat you alive." I think there is something to be said for that.

McParadigm wrote:

And I find it amusing when atheists become atheists because they are angry they were "brainwashed" while growing up in a religious family, as if that should be the place where faith comes from.

.I've never met anybody who became an atheist for this reason.

I haven't either, but it does seem that the most outspoken atheists feel angry that they were once brainwashed when they grew up in a religious background.

Harry Lime wrote:I've referenced him in the past, but I fall in line with Dostoevsky's thinking. He might have classified himself as an agnostic though, I don't know. Anyway, he tried desperately to rid himself of the notion of God, but the more he tried the more that desire to believe influenced him. I don't think we should take that desire for granted. Shouldn't there be something said for one's desire to see ther loved ones again? To be happier? It's a knee-jerk, innate response to traumas in life, yet, we scoff at it. Why? As David Foster Wallace once said of faith in God, it's the only form of worship "that won't eat you alive." I think there is something to be said for that.

there is. It's why I can appreciate, and in some cases even respect, personal faith (pre-politicized), despite my atheism. Took me some time to get there, though.

stip wrote:

Harry Lime wrote:I've referenced him in the past, but I fall in line with Dostoevsky's thinking. He might have classified himself as an agnostic though, I don't know. Anyway, he tried desperately to rid himself of the notion of God, but the more he tried the more that desire to believe influenced him. I don't think we should take that desire for granted. Shouldn't there be something said for one's desire to see ther loved ones again? To be happier? It's a knee-jerk, innate response to traumas in life, yet, we scoff at it. Why? As David Foster Wallace once said of faith in God, it's the only form of worship "that won't eat you alive." I think there is something to be said for that.

there is. It's why I can appreciate, and in some cases even respect, personal faith (pre-politicized), despite my atheism. Took me some time to get there, though.

I think a lot of it comes down to, are you directing it inwards as an explanation of your faith ("this is a way that I've felt or currently feel"), or are you directing it outwards at others (as in, "why don't you feel this way? you should feel this way").

Harry Lime wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

And I find it amusing when atheists become atheists because they are angry they were "brainwashed" while growing up in a religious family, as if that should be the place where faith comes from.

I've never met anybody who became an atheist for this reason.

I know one. I can't tell what fuels him more, what his "logic & reason" told him, or the resentment towards his family.

Is it possible that he became an atheist not because of his family, but in spite of? And that when he began to think logically and reasoned out what is he believes without having unexamined superstitions, that it was THEN that he resented not being raised to think for himself about things? I don't know anyone who lost their faith because they were raised in a religious household, but I know a few who were raised with religion, finally started questioning things they'd been spoon-fed as true since the cradle, and then came to resent the lack of critical thinking in their upbringing. Sometimes that can come off as resentment toward the parents (and in the case of the guy you know, it could really be resentment towards his family). It also tends to subside with time.

Regarding wanting to see your family and friends after you die - I'd rather embrace an inconvenient truth than a comfortable lie. That's me, though. As long as your belief in an afterlife doesn't get forced on me in this one, it's all good.

kahli sana wrote:

Harry Lime wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

And I find it amusing when atheists become atheists because they are angry they were "brainwashed" while growing up in a religious family, as if that should be the place where faith comes from.

I've never met anybody who became an atheist for this reason.

I know one. I can't tell what fuels him more, what his "logic & reason" told him, or the resentment towards his family.

Is it possible that he became an atheist not because of his family, but in spite of? And that when he began to think logically and reasoned out what is he believes without having unexamined superstitions, that it was THEN that he resented not being raised to think for himself about things? I don't know anyone who lost their faith because they were raised in a religious household, but I know a few who were raised with religion, finally started questioning things they'd been spoon-fed as true since the cradle, and then came to resent the lack of critical thinking in their upbringing. Sometimes that can come off as resentment toward the parents (and in the case of the guy you know, it could really be resentment towards his family). It also tends to subside with time.

Regarding wanting to see your family and friends after you die - I'd rather embrace an inconvenient truth than a comfortable lie. That's me, though. As long as your belief in an afterlife doesn't get forced on me in this one, it's all good.

It's more than just being happy in an afterlife. And if there is an afterlife, who says it's all that simple anyway?

There's a lot more I feel like sharing about my own faith, but I'm tired & I work the night shift. Thomas Merton's work is good though

Regardless of whether an afterlife exists or not, I'm pretty comfortable with the idea that tendency toward belief is an isolated concept that is genetically influenced.

I can very vividly remember sitting in the summer church program thing my parents put me in for ages 5-7, just getting incredibly confused. The songs were fun to sing, and the arts and crafts and whatnot were all great...but then I started to realize that people actually thought it was all true. Like, real in a way that the Gumby-like David and Goliath show we watched after we ate our lunches was not. That blew my mind.