Red Mosquito

this is causing me to rethink my position.

"Man of the Hour" was on their Epic greatest hits, though, so the label must have some claim to it.

THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN DECIDED

yeah, weren't you all listening to me?

What was the decision? I wasn't listening and I'm lazy.

That the Riot Act era extends until at least September 2004.

Now I'm conflicted. I just remembered I had the Riot Act era going through the VFC tour and the 04 election. After that, they said fuck it, we can't make a difference - let's go make some $$. I believe I said something similar in the header post on the original PRAMG thread.

So, you are right, including MotH (released Nov 2003) in the PRAMG is a little dicey to the agreed upon start of the PRAMG. However, since it was included on the greatest hits album (released Nov 2004, coincident with the end of the VFC tour), then it could be established that the release of the greatest hits album was the official start of the PRAMG (although the band really had nothing to do with it). Then, since Man of the Hour was on that album, then it also would qualify. But that's some bad logic.

This is super important guys, we have to get it right.

hlniv wrote:Yeah, hard to argue that a song released after Riot Act, and written for a movie released in partnership with Amazon should not be included in the PRAMG category.

this is a very pramgatic point of view

The band watched Sony cashing in on their legacy and thought we need a piece of our own pie. Simple.

To me, Riot Act ends at the last show of its tour, July 19th.

Maybe it's a "transition" era, from Epic to No Label:

** Last three months of 2003, after Riot Act Tour ending
Four benefit shows (YouthCare, Bridge School, Prostate Cancer; October shows)
Man Of The Hour (with no label, November 10; Amazon helps to distribute the digital version, December 17)
Lost Dogs / Live at the Garden (with Epic, November 11)
Big Fish film and soundtrack (December 23)
2003 Ten Club holiday single (Reach Down and I Believe In Miracles, both from Santa Barbara)

** 2004
Hot Stove Cool Music (2003 Denver Bushleaguer, January 20)
IMPACT Awards show (April 9)
Live at Benaroya Hall (YouthCare show, with BMG, July 27) Is the vinyl a BMG release? I don't have it
Riding Giants (Go, June 29)
You Can't Be neutral on a Moving Train (Down)
Jack Iron's Attention Dimension (September 7)
No Vote Left Behind (Seattle-based political action committee benefit show, September 24)
West Memphis Three (two Boston shows, September 28-29)
Late Show (Masters Of War, September 30)
Vote For Change Tour (seven shows, October)
Bridge School (Eddie, two dates, October 23-24)
For The Lady (Better Man of Bridge School, 2003?)
Rearviewmirror (Greatest Hits 1991-2003) includes Man Of The Hour, PJ fulfills its contract with Epic, November 16
The Molo Sessions (Eddie's album, December 15)
2004 Ten Club holiday single (Better Man of The Molo Sessions and Someday at Christmas)

** 2005
21th Anniversary of the Northwest School show (Crapshoot Rapture aka Comatose)
CIMS show (Live At Easy Street with J Records, later on 2006)
Jon Tester's benefit show +
Gorge warm-up show +
Canadian Tour without album (16 shows) +
Opening for The Rolling Stones (A Bigger Bang Tour)
Borgata and Philadelphia (three shows) +
Pearl Jam and Robert Plant headline a $1,000-per-ticket benefit for Hurricane Katrina victims (Chicago)
They perform "Money (That's What I Want)"
South America Tour without album (12 shows) +
2005 Ten Club holiday single (Little Sister with Robert Plant and Gone demo)

+ 2005 tour goes digital only in MP3. Later goes FLAC and CD.

No label, no album, touring without pressure. Does 2005 begin the money grab? Or, it's part of the transition.

spived wrote: They perform "Money (That's What I Want)"

sounds pretty definitive to me.

AndySlash wrote:

spived wrote: They perform "Money (That's What I Want)"

sounds pretty definitive to me.

We have an exact date.

LetMeSleep wrote:

AndySlash wrote:

spived wrote: They perform "Money (That's What I Want)"

sounds pretty definitive to me.

We have an exact date.

That's hilarious.

The seems like a good time to remind everyone that the original money grab is yield.

Which brings up a good time to refer everyone back to DcT's post where he points out that the money grab era will end as soon as pearl jam releases an album that has strong RM support.

hlniv wrote:I had the Riot Act era going through the VFC tour and the 04 election. After that, they said fuck it, we can't make a difference - let's go make some $$.

So that fuck GEORGE W. BUSH ruined Pearl Jam?

stip wrote:The seems like a good time to remind everyone that the original money grab is yield.

Which reminds me to remind you that Yield wasn't a moneygrab, it was a very limited promotional effort, their first since Vs. They released a commercial, a long form recording video, and a music video for a song (animated). Oh, and they went back to Ticketmaster.

Not quite in the same league as 2004-2011 in terms of a sales and relevancy focus.

Nor in the same league as the decline in the actual music quality that occurred after Riot Act. Yield is a great album. None of the PRAMG's are great albums.

bluestate wrote:

hlniv wrote:I had the Riot Act era going through the VFC tour and the 04 election. After that, they said fuck it, we can't make a difference - let's go make some $$.

So that fuck GEORGE W. BUSH ruined Pearl Jam?

It appears so, yes...

hlniv wrote:

stip wrote:The seems like a good time to remind everyone that the original money grab is yield.

Which reminds me to remind you that Yield wasn't a moneygrab, it was a very limited promotional effort, their first since Vs. They released a commercial, a long form recording video, and a music video for a song (animated). Oh, and they went back to Ticketmaster.

Not quite in the same league as 2004-2011 in terms of a sales and relevancy focus.

Nor in the same league as the decline in the actual music quality that occurred after Riot Act. Yield is a great album. None of the PRAMG's are great albums.

The artistic decline comment is relative. I think Yield is seriously overrated in these parts (as is this whole era).

The times were very different, so direct promotional comparisons are tricky. But everything Pearl Jam did then

1--An actual TV commercial advertising an album at a time when a pearl jam record probably required no advertising

2--Making a video, the primary form of music promotion

3--going back to ticketmaster after the famous boycott

4--self consciously writing an accessible 'return to form' record

5--Releasing your most accessible song as your single

I personally don't care about any of these things and am glad 2-5 happened. But all of them were

A: intended to increase album sales
B: A pretty large step back from previously held explicitly anti-commercial positions, and in all cases a pretty more substantial leap than any promotional work done post Riot Act. Every single one of these things spits in the face of pearl jam's anti-commercial values at a time when those values were a much larger part of the band's identity.

But, as Joey and others have said--no one cares because they like the music. that's why I've always hated the money grab side of this conversation. It's people looking for reasons why they don't like pearl jam's output as much as they used to other than pearl jam not wanting to write the kinds of songs they like.

This is a bit of a rabbit hole, but the differences between Yield's rollout and the S/T rollout seem pretty apparent. The latter remains a unique moment in the band's history by the band's own admission. From Rolling Stone:

The band members are showing a newfound willingness to promote themselves -- appearing on Saturday Night Live and Letterman -- in part because they want their political voice heard. "It seems like a critical time to participate in our democracy," says Vedder. "I think we're representatives of America. We certainly have as much clout as, well, Rush Limbaugh. So if he's gonna fuckin' blow hot air, using his platform, then we should be doing the same."

I don't think there was necessarily a money grab; I take Eddie at his word. I think of it more as a popularity grab. The front cover of Rolling Stone, multiple music videos, SNL, Letterman, Jools Holland, a ton of interviews vs. a commercial and a return to working with Ticketmaster that was unavoidable seems like pretty different situations (again, I'm not passing judgment on that).