Red Mosquito

What a tune. God, they used to be so good.

I think the biggest shift is in Billy's vocals. He changed it up in an act of self-preservation, but it's just not the same. Also, they're way too forward in every mix since forever.

And as Veggie said, he needs a producer to reign him in. It's not like there has been a dramatic shift in his ability to write an arrangement. It's just everything after that. Dang.

been listening to CYR a lot.
The highs are very good really. I would prefer a single album but its still compelling enough and Billy doesnt sound so fucking upfront in a lot of songs, so thats a good change too.

oasisfan35 wrote:This discussion had me throw on Machina II today which I immediately followed with Adore because just about any time I hear the Pumpkins I want to listen to that album.

This performance

Also, just studio albums no eps no collection of b sides, no machina 2.....my ranking might be something like this:

1-Siamese Dream
2-Adore
3-Mellon Collie
4-Gish
5-Zeitgeist
6-Machina
7-Shiny
8-CYR
9-Atum
10-Oceania

Not sure what will happen with the last one.

Kevin Davis wrote:

oasisfan35 wrote:This discussion had me throw on Machina II today which I immediately followed with Adore because just about any time I hear the Pumpkins I want to listen to that album.

This performance

That whole disc is fantastic.

VinylGuy wrote:5-Zeitgeist
6-Machina

The only ranking I'm sure of is Siamese Dream #1 and Mellon Collie #2.

Gish, Adore and Machina are basically in a three-way tie for me. If Pisces counts, then it's a four-way tie. They're all incredible albums.

Those are my #1 and #2 as well, with the caveat that I have so many emotions and memories tied up with Mellon Collie that I really have to psych myself up to listen to it. It's one of those albums that is almost devastating how nostalgic and sentimental it feels to listen to it.

Early Pumpkins (1994 and earlier) is pretty much my go-to for them these days. I just get totally swallowed up by that sound -- the distortion, the reverb, the psychedelic feedback. So great.

Kevin Davis wrote:Early Pumpkins (1994 and earlier) is pretty much my go-to for them these days. I just get totally swallowed up by that sound -- the distortion, the reverb, the psychedelic feedback. So great.

Co-sign!

I don't often feel like revisiting the rest of the band's 90s output but that early stuff somehow sounds better and better as time goes along.

I think Pisces deluxe might be my most-listened-to in the last ~5 years. It's so damn good.

Ello Sailor wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:5-Zeitgeist
6-Machina

I know it’s a hot take but if im being honest i prefer those songs over all of Machina.
The highs on that one are top notch though

New album is a dud IMO. The guitar work is killer but Billy refuses to let these songs breathe. He insists on cramming forgettable vocal melodies into every bar.

This is especially maddening because I found a lot of hooks on both Cyr and ATUM. It's like he's incapable of excelling on guitar and vocals simultaneously these days. It's one or the other at any given time, and it's sad.

yeah, i like both Cyr and Atum a lot. And this one...i just dont have any desire to listen to it. Might be the most disappoiting album from Billy.

Why does this sound so boring? The instrumentation isn't bad. Billy isn't off-key. It's just... bland. Give us a vocal hook, homie.

Ello Sailor wrote:Why does this sound so boring? The instrumentation isn't bad. Billy isn't off-key. It's just... bland. Give us a vocal hook, homie.

yeah i agree.. the music kinda rocks but there's no melody

yeah i also agree...there is no hook, no moment, no cool bridge

also Kiki looks weird playing there at least James is doing a few cool things.

Kiki is a meme. You know James is shaking his head and thinking of the mortgage.

James at least is adding a few good things...Jimmy might be sleeping.

And yes, Kiki is moving like she is playing in some euro heavy metal band